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Gun store gets restraining order against ATF

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  • Gun store gets restraining order against ATF

    Interesting.

    OCEANSIDE, Calif. – The owner of an Oceanside store that sells various gun parts to build a rifle from scratch refused to turn over his customer list to federal agents.

    Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor, said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents were investigating their business, not for what they sell, but for the people who purchase their products.

    Karras said the ATF threatened to shutter their business if they didn’t hand over the names of 5,000 customers who have purchased an 80 percent lower receiver (the base) for building an AR-15.

    It is legal to build a rifle from scratch without serial numbers only if the base is manufactured to ATF specifications. The base is not considered a firearm if it’s sold separately.

    A manufacturer made an 80 percent receiver in plastic with a different material and colors which show exactly where the customer can drill making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said it is illegal.

    The ATF sent stores, including Ares Armor, letters demanding they turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them.

    “They said either give us these 5000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do,” said Karras.

    Karras’s attorney informed the ATF to pick up the receivers Wednesday morning at their Oceanside location, but the inventory was not the issue. The store owner said he will not comply with turning over their private client list.

    “They were going to search all of our facilities and confiscate our computer and pretty much shut our business down,” said Karras. “The government invades our privacy on a daily basis and everyone thinks its ok. This is one of those situations where hopefully the governmental institutions will come in say this is protected and no you’re not taking it from them.”

    In anticipation of a raid, they filed a temporary restraining order against the ATF, stopping them from confiscating their property, Karras said. The ATF has a certain amount of time to respond. If the two parties do not reach a compromise, they will be in court for a preliminary hearing March 20.



    Read more: http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/g...#ixzz2w8j6QY7V


  • #2
    This is why I like Smith Enterprises soo much. Mr Smith is a crusty old fucker who does not use an invoice for your order or save your name after the order has been filled.
    Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by svo855 View Post
      Mr Smith is a crusty old fucker
      I laughed.

      Comment


      • #4
        [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzBkcUZnm-w[/ame]
        .

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        • #5
          ATF raided it anyways
          [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gsmlJSpWvk[/ame]

          <--too stupid to make that work right
          Fuck you. We're going to Costco.

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          • #6
            I take issue with calling it a gun store, unless they sold whole guns.
            ZOMBIE REAGAN FOR PRESIDENT 2016!!! heh

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            • #7
              Hopefully with all the prior notice the store owners had they removed the old drives and records so that even the best of data recovery guys couldn't find shit on them. I mean come on wouldn't that be the first fucking thing any sensible person would do once they caught wind that any agency was after their data?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by inline 6 View Post
                Hopefully with all the prior notice the store owners had they removed the old drives and records so that even the best of data recovery guys couldn't find shit on them. I mean come on wouldn't that be the first fucking thing any sensible person would do once they caught wind that any agency was after their data?
                I am no lawyer but I believe that once they have said they want it and you go and destroy it or tamper with it, that is against the law.
                Fuck you. We're going to Costco.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by kbscobravert View Post
                  I am no lawyer but I believe that once they have said they want it and you go and destroy it or tamper with it, that is against the law.
                  There was nothing there to begin with, I don't keep records. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by inline 6 View Post
                    There was nothing there to begin with, I don't keep records. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
                    Smartest would have been to just remove them and tell them to get a court order forcing you to turn them over. I wouldn't tell them where they were either. lol

                    But hey, if you aint got any, you aing got any.
                    Fuck you. We're going to Costco.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just another reason that FFA's should use hardware based encryption techniques. Hackers being the other.

                      Pull the the usb stick and no access

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                      • #12
                        Records? Oh, they were all lost in a horrible boating accident.
                        "It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

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                        • #13
                          Explanation on what may have happened. On my phone so cant copy and past.

                          http://bearingarms.com/tactical-mach...on-ares-armor/
                          I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


                          Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

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                          • #14
                            In regards to the 80% fiasco at Ares Armor, the legality of 80% receivers, and how you can avoid the ATF knocking on your door for buying an “80% receiver” instead of an 80% receiver.

                            It’s not an 80% lower fiasco, it’s a we we’re selling a product that was clearly not an 80% fiasco. ATF considers any dimpling or marking of either the FCG or the hammer / trigger / safety selector as a 100% receiver. The ATF details this in the determination letter they provide you after they have approved your product. Also, the ATF considers the 3D printed lowers EP produced as once a firearm and converted to an “80%” which is a no-no because ATF has proper decommissioning standards. They print the 100% lower then print the FCG section into the 100% lower. A technicality but still “wrong” in the eyes the ATF. This ENTIRE fiasco could have been avoided by the manufacturer receiving a determination letter from the ATF saying that the item isn’t a firearm.

                            The approved standards for 80% receivers are pretty clear cut but manufacturers are constantly looking for easier ways for customers to complete it into a firearm. Without ATF approval you could be purchasing what the ATF considers a firearm. In the past when the ATF has changed its standards on 80% receivers it notifies all manufacturers with approval determinations and gives them the opportunity to modify their product to remain compliant. They also allow manufacturers to finish selling whatever receivers are in stock that are becoming non-compliant as long as they were manufactured prior to the determination change. The ATF is very cooperative with product determinations but if you do not receive one and manufacture products that are considered firearms they will stop the manufacturer and try to determine how many firearms were sold as non-firearms. This ATF raid was not due to an ATF crackdown on 80% receivers but a crackdown on non-compliant 80% receiver manufacturers.

                            Tactical Machining has a determination from the ATF stating that our 80% receivers are not firearms. Make sure the manufacturer of your 80% lower has a determination from the ATF or you could end up in the same boat.

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                            • #15
                              ATF all concerned now...

                              ...about "privacy" of their guys...

                              ...
                              At any rate the latest hilarity comes from a request by the ATF to take down some playful memes that Ares Armor have been putting up utilizing the surveillance footage from the raid. The reason being that it violates the officer's privacy. If you can't get a big hearty laugh from that then don't waste any money or time on comedy any time soon. You can see an innocuous memes below for some context if you haven't been following along.

                              "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

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