EAA Witness deals

[Moose242]

Every big time 10mm shooter I know reloads. Off the shelf stuff is pretty pricey.

When reloading hot 10mm, do you have to throw a gas check on the cast stuff?

[CJ]

Every big time 10mm shooter I know reloads. Off the shelf stuff is pretty pricey.

When reloading hot 10mm, do you have to throw a gas check on the cast stuff?

You would have to. I have shot unchecked 10mm, but it will lead if you go over 1200fps, you can do it with adjusting your hardness with alloys, but it just gets to be too speculative and not repeatable. I usually load jacketed rounds for 10mm, I haven't taken the time to try to figure out cast. Once you get into gas checking you're really destroying your savings.

[BMCSean]

I guess I won't be getting one then.

[Moose242]

I am quite surprised that you, being you, has not began smelting all copper pennies into gas checks or something.

[talisman]

CJ, I can help you with the pennies; I've got quite a few. I'll only charge you 5 cents for each one..

[CJ]

I am quite surprised that you, being you, has not began smelting all copper pennies into gas checks or something.

Yeah I've actually melted down pre 82 pennies once to make a copper block which I machined into a waterblock for a computer. I bet you could turn pennies into gas checks with a high pressure press, 5% zinc probably wouldn't be a problem, only thing is it isn't realistic, not enough old pennies.

and shysters like Eric ^^^

[talisman]

They just went up to 10 cents each you fuck!

[71chevellejohn]

I'll lowball at 9 cents.

[YALE]

Yeah I've actually melted down pre 82 pennies once to make a copper block which I machined into a waterblock for a computer. I bet you could turn pennies into gas checks with a high pressure press, 5% zinc probably wouldn't be a problem, only thing is it isn't realistic, not enough old pennies.

and shysters like Eric ^^^

I'm gonna get you a swaging kit for Christmas.

[CJ]

I'm gonna get you a swaging kit for Christmas.

That would be fucking amazing. I've always wanted to try that. I look into it every few years, but never can justify the cost. One of these days though!

[Moose242]

Ok, I got in touch with Jim Schatz, an HK employee from 1986 to 2006. Military and Govt sales rep his whole time with them.

"The damage that is usually associated with the MP5/10 came from individuals not shooting the correct ammo with the correct locking piece. The rule from HK is that if the 10mm ammo has a velocity above 1,100 fps, then the hi impulse LP is to be used; less than 1,100 fps, then the lo impulse LP is to be used.
As you might expect, individuals rarely read the manuals or pay attention to the ammo they are shooting. As such, shooting high velocity ammo with the lo impulse LP causes over function, putting greater stress on the weapon during recoil. Often the visible sign is bulges in the receiver near where the stock mounts."

-The HK suggestion of over 1100 fps - use the HI LP - is just a starting point. There are rounds under 1100 fps that are in the HI range. It takes complex recoil impulse testing to classify a HI or LO round. MV or bullet weight is not enough.
-Watch the function as the gun breaks ins. It WILL run faster the more you shoot it and with that can come overfunction.
-Keep an eye on the rubber buffer in the retractable stock. If it begins to show signs of bolt carrier impact (witness marks, breakage of the ends) then you are operating in the HI range using a LO LP.
-If you shoot it suppressed, consider how that will increase overfunction.
-If you see roller bulges in the stock grooves you are operating in the HI range and need the HI LP.
-If the retractable stock is hard to extend you may already have roller bulges.
-You should have both HI and LO pieces. Start with the HI. If you get weak ejection of failures to eject go to the LO LP. Keep the HI piece close (stored in the pistol grip) so it is available."

That said, no mention of seeing any blown up guns or damage aside from what is mentioned above is present.

The guns are apparently stout enough, but you need to be mindful of what ammo you are using. Using hi velocity 10mm with the low LP would be like me running my light bolt in my MAC and .45acp +p+ (not sure if that exists, but lets say 20% over max). It might work for a while, but would wear prematurely.

[CJ]

Ok, I got in touch with Jim Schatz, an HK employee from 1986 to 2006. Military and Govt sales rep his whole time with them.

"The damage that is usually associated with the MP5/10 came from individuals not shooting the correct ammo with the correct locking piece. The rule from HK is that if the 10mm ammo has a velocity above 1,100 fps, then the hi impulse LP is to be used; less than 1,100 fps, then the lo impulse LP is to be used.
As you might expect, individuals rarely read the manuals or pay attention to the ammo they are shooting. As such, shooting high velocity ammo with the lo impulse LP causes over function, putting greater stress on the weapon during recoil. Often the visible sign is bulges in the receiver near where the stock mounts."

-The HK suggestion of over 1100 fps - use the HI LP - is just a starting point. There are rounds under 1100 fps that are in the HI range. It takes complex recoil impulse testing to classify a HI or LO round. MV or bullet weight is not enough.
-Watch the function as the gun breaks ins. It WILL run faster the more you shoot it and with that can come overfunction.
-Keep an eye on the rubber buffer in the retractable stock. If it begins to show signs of bolt carrier impact (witness marks, breakage of the ends) then you are operating in the HI range using a LO LP.
-If you shoot it suppressed, consider how that will increase overfunction.
-If you see roller bulges in the stock grooves you are operating in the HI range and need the HI LP.
-If the retractable stock is hard to extend you may already have roller bulges.
-You should have both HI and LO pieces. Start with the HI. If you get weak ejection of failures to eject go to the LO LP. Keep the HI piece close (stored in the pistol grip) so it is available."

That said, no mention of seeing any blown up guns or damage aside from what is mentioned above is present.

The guns are apparently stout enough, but you need to be mindful of what ammo you are using. Using hi velocity 10mm with the low LP would be like me running my light bolt in my MAC and .45acp +p+ (not sure if that exists, but lets say 20% over max). It might work for a while, but would wear prematurely.

There is hardly any 10mm round less than 1100fps out of that barrel length (I just checked, I can't find any that low of a fps in any grain at all). Now this reputation is starting to make a lot more sense.. I find it mind boggling they would even have that locking piece. To me, honestly, it sounds like a fuck up. That should have been only a specialty part for people loading .40 S&W velocities (like late FBI loads). That's like releasing a .22 pistol, having problems with it, and then saying, "Oh, you didn't read the manual? It's only meant to shoot subsonic, if you want to shoot regular .22 you need to use a different part." With that LP in that gun, it is not a 10mm gun, it's a .40 cal. If I was someone who didn't understand how these guns worked at all, I might believe they could go undamaged, but knowing how they work and reading that above it's clear that a gun running a high pressure rounds with the low pressure locking piece would eventually start to fail, it's inevitable. So as much as hearsay I don't think there's any reason not to believe the reputation was earned. HK in their own statement above is alluding to how it would eventually happen.

[Moose242]

In the way of locking pieces they always cover their asses for all kinds of ammo. Hell, there are 7 7.62 LPs, 6 .223 LPs, and 5 9mm LPs.

My bet is the low piece was designed specifically for the FBI's 180 grain @ 950 fps stuff.

[CJ]

In the way of locking pieces they always cover their asses for all kinds of ammo. Hell, there are 7 7.62 LPs, 6 .223 LPs, and 5 9mm LPs.

My bet is the low piece was designed specifically for the FBI's 180 grain @ 950 fps stuff.

I think the important thing to take away from that is with the low pressure locking piece installed, it will fail on full house 10mm eventually. It's essentially a locking piece designed for an out of caliber spec load (and FBI loads were, hence why they changed case). It seems quite reasonable to presume many police departments did not follow directions and ran the low pressure piece (which seems like it was that way from the factory) and eventually had problems/failures. Thanks for checking up on that, we're all a little more smarter now.

[Moose242]

Sure, just like +p+ ammo will wear out a 9mm gun faster.

All in all, it appears that with the proper piece, an mp5/10 is a solid gun. There was no mention of one rattling themselves apart even with the low piece.