Pistol training is pointless

[Moose242]

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles/shooting/combat.htm

After studying more than 200 violent encounters, no connection whatsoever has been found between prowess on the range and effectiveness in combat. None. Hollywood taught you that the pistol-armed guy hitting the bull's-eye at 90 feet at the gun range is a champion badass, but science says that's bullshit.

It has been assumed that if a man can hit a target at 50 yards he can certainly do the same at three feet. That assumption is not borne out by the reports.An attempt was made to relate an officer's ability to strike a target in a combat situation to his range qualification scores. After making over 200 such comparisons, no firm conclusion was reached.

Basically, any training with a pistol means dick.

[YALE]

What about practical shooting drills? IPSC/IDPA?

[helosailor]

Pressure changes everything.
"It's easy to grin when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat. But the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat"

[Moose242]

What about practical shooting drills? IPSC/IDPA?

Obviously training for competition is different.

[YALE]

Obviously training for competition is different.

Right on.

[kingjason]

The best training we do is active shooter. It really shows how pressure can throw some people off. I will say that even though that is fantastic training it is still nothing like the real deal. I believe the range is still a necessity for learning how to manipulate the weapon efficiently. Some people get into LE and have no clue about guns. In my opinion there is also a huge difference in straight up a guy throwing rounds at you while walking up or out the window of a car VS the incoming guys, knowing what you are about to do.

Oh and the first active shooter training I ever did included live flash bangs set up like grenades on the floor under boxes. They were also throwing them at us. That was a lot better then the last class I did were that wasn't allowed.

[S_K]

What about practical shooting drills? IPSC/IDPA?

It's better, but not much. No one is shooting back. Take an active shooter, force on force, or zero to 5 ft. gun-fighting class. It will open your eyes.

[Cobraman]

I don't believe that there is no correlation at all. Someone that can shoot good groups at the range and has good muscle memory from shooting is bound to do better than someone who shoots terribly at the range. I don't claim that the range is good practice for a force on force situation but I definitely think the range does some good. You get familiar with your weapon, practice your draw, work on sight picture etc.

[GhostTX]

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles...ing/combat.htm

After studying more than 200 violent encounters, no connection whatsoever has been found between prowess on the range and effectiveness in combat. None. Hollywood taught you that the pistol-armed guy hitting the bull's-eye at 90 feet at the gun range is a champion badass, but science says that's bullshit.

It has been assumed that if a man can hit a target at 50 yards he can certainly do the same at three feet. That assumption is not borne out by the reports.An attempt was made to relate an officer's ability to strike a target in a combat situation to his range qualification scores. After making over 200 such comparisons, no firm conclusion was reached.

Basically, any training with a pistol means dick.

No, "standard" LEO static-target, no-pressure training with once or twice a year qualifiers means dick.

I've been to training with fresh LEO grads and "vets", and some might shoot alright, but once you induce pressure, the targets look like it was hit with a shotgun at 20 yards.

I'm reminded of this gem:

A reader sent this along, from a NY cop detailing how much training the typical New York Cop receives. Someone in the comment section brought up citizen concealed carry holders, and he remarks:

Any average CCW citizen who practices more then twice a year pretty much has most of the department beat in terms of training.

That’s scary. I’m also struck by this admission:

The NYPD offers once a month training for members to use, on their own time. However, all that is done during these sessions are the same basic dumbed down qualification exercises. You will only receive real help if you outright fail. Missed 12 out of fifty @ 7 yards? GOOD ENOUGH!

MOST NYPD officers fire their FIRST gun, ever in their entire lives, at the police academy, some as young as 21 to as old as 35 shooting for their very first time, and on a DAO pistol.

http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/08/28/ny-police-officer-on-nypd-training/

I think the rule of thumb is: what you practice at the range will degrade over 50% when the SHTF if you're lucky.

[Sgt Beavis]

I totally buy what they are selling in that article. If an intruder wakes you up in the dead of night, your breathing is going to be all screwed up from the get go. You're not likely to properly place the pad of your index finger right on the trigger but either get the tip on there or slip down to the first joint. Never mind that your trigger squeeze will be screwed up as well...

I'm obviously not speaking from experience but I think you are doing well to not hit non-combatants in a firefight. You're likely at close range to begin with. It'll be a challenge to simply keep your wits about you.

[CJ]

I'm reading what beavis is saying and I find myself surprised at all of the things that come into aiming. How many in here can hit a man sized target without aiming? It really isn't that hard to do. Now, of course in stressful situations it's completely different. However, I think with a lot of trigger time just about anyone can get a feel for where a bullet is going.

[War Machine]

Even more reason to buy a gun that fits your hand

[John -- '02 HAWK]

I'm reading what beavis is saying and I find myself surprised at all of the things that come into aiming. How many in here can hit a man sized target without aiming? It really isn't that hard to do. Now, of course in stressful situations it's completely different. However, I think with a lot of trigger time just about anyone can get a feel for where a bullet is going.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tkMYoOLAhk[/ame]

best answer is the target is moving, and so are you

[Cobraman]

Seeing as almost all self defense shootings happen in under 5ft I wouldn't worry about nitty gritty stuff.

Disregard the mad face. On my phone and didn't mean to hit it