I cannot believe I'm about to spend $900 on optics

[CJ]

I don't think I can justify 2.5x more but it is better than the others by a significant margin.

Here are pics of the scope I'm looking at (previous pics are from a lower end model):

6x



24x


that looks great to me.

[DieselSmoke]

that looks great to me.

Looks pretty damn good to me too.

[03trubluGT]

Here the comparison.
The NF beats the viper pst, the viper beats the leupold. But, is the NF worth 2.5x more? You decide.

Left to right, I would rate those scopes as 3, 2, 1 with the NF as the far and away winner.

The NF has by far the best focus, depth of field and contrast.

When you start going to the left, they loose focus and edge to egde sharpness. The VX3 is not good at all compared to the others.

Is the NF worth the extra skrilla? It depends on your use. I like my NF because I had bought it with the intention of still trying to get into SWAT and needed every advantage. My .308 + NF has about 8 deer one shot kills. In low light situations, it is by far the best scope I have ever used. I have the 56mm objective, and it's a light gathering Mo-Fo.

[CJ]

Left to right, I would rate those scopes as 3, 2, 1 with the NF as the far and away winner.

The NF has by far the best focus, depth of field and contrast.

When you start going to the left, they loose focus and edge to egde sharpness. The VX3 is not good at all compared to the others.

Is the NF worth the extra skrilla? It depends on your use. I like my NF because I had bought it with the intention of still trying to get into SWAT and needed every advantage. My .308 + NF has about 8 deer one shot kills. In low light situations, it is by far the best scope I have ever used. I have the 56mm objective, and it's a light gathering Mo-Fo.

I agree the NF is the best, it's the watermark for sure. The scope in those 3 pictures is a lower end PST, the bottom pic is the one I'm looking at, and it appears to have just about perfect clarity and I see much less CA in it. NF is worth the money, HOWEVER - at the magnification I'm buying (24x) NF run about $2,500-3,000+ and don't offer an illuminated reticle to my knowledge. Is your NF at FFP? That's 2.5-3x as much money - I can have a match grade M1a for that money - and I'd rather have the M1a. And most important, Vortex has the best warranty I've ever even heard of. You can take a hammer, smash the scope to bits, toss the pieces in a bag and ship it back to them without a receipt or anything, and they will send you a new one back, no questions asked. When they first released the scope they sent it out to reviewers and professionals - they had some issues with the turret resistance and a few other complaints - vortex stopped the production, re-engineered their scopes to fix the problems, and are just now getting them out the door, after they fixed all of the complaints - that's nice to see they listen to people. And it all originated from a thread on snipershide which vortex was reading.

[03trubluGT]

I agree the NF is the best, it's the watermark for sure. The scope in those 3 pictures is a lower end PST, the bottom pic is the one I'm looking at, and it appears to have just about perfect clarity and I see much less CA in it. NF is worth the money, HOWEVER - at the magnification I'm buying (24x) NF run about $2,500-3,000+ and don't offer an illuminated reticle to my knowledge. Is your NF at FFP? That's 2.5-3x as much money - I can have a match grade M1a for that money - and I'd rather have the M1a. And most important, Vortex has the best warranty I've ever even heard of. You can take a hammer, smash the scope to bits, toss the pieces in a bag and ship it back to them without a receipt or anything, and they will send you a new one back, no questions asked. When they first released the scope they sent it out to reviewers and professionals - they had some issues with the turret resistance and a few other complaints - vortex stopped the production, re-engineered their scopes to fix the problems, and are just now getting them out the door, after they fixed all of the complaints - that's nice to see they listen to people. And it all originated from a thread on snipershide which vortex was reading.

What is "FFP"?

The 8-23x has an illuminated reticle:

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/RETICLES_OVERVIEW/reticles_overview.html

Precision laser-etching on compound optical glass, smaller than a dime ensures a clear reticle in your field of view with no distortion, ensuring repeatability. A reliable internal lighting source illuminates the reticle against your target in low light, low contrast conditions. Illumination intensity is adjustable to accommodate the individual shooter.

Just one quick search shows the 8-32x at $1755 here:

http://www.bearbasin.com/nightforce-nxs-scope.htm

[03trubluGT]

Here are pics of the scope I'm looking at (previous pics are from a lower end model):

6x



24x


that looks great to me.

I can't tell if that is CA or haze, but I can't see where the scope's focus point is at. In the entire area of coverage, front to back, I can't see a single focus point.

Or, it could be the fault of the camera that was used to take the picture.

[helosailor]

What is "FFP"?

Front Focal Plane?

[CJ]

What is "FFP"?

The 8-23x has an illuminated reticle:

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/RETICLES_OVERVIEW/reticles_overview.html

Precision laser-etching on compound optical glass, smaller than a dime ensures a clear reticle in your field of view with no distortion, ensuring repeatability. A reliable internal lighting source illuminates the reticle against your target in low light, low contrast conditions. Illumination intensity is adjustable to accommodate the individual shooter.

Just one quick search shows the 8-32x at $1755 here:

http://www.bearbasin.com/nightforce-nxs-scope.htm

yeah none of those are FFP, big difference. The only one I see that is FFP is $2,300 and it's half the magnification I'm looking for. And it appears thats the only one they make, so they don't offer one in the magnification I'm looking for.

[CJ]

I can't tell if that is CA or haze, but I can't see where the scope's focus point is at. In the entire area of coverage, front to back, I can't see a single focus point.

Or, it could be the fault of the camera that was used to take the picture.

it's focused on the bottom left edge of the sheet metal. Pretty shitty picture. FFP - first focal plane means that as you zoom in, you also zoom in on the reticle - meaning the reticle is actually on the first element, so you zoom into it. It's a really big deal because as you zoom in, you get more detail for accuracy - if you notice the first pic has what looks like a standard cross hair with a thin portion in the center, when you zoom in to 24x you see it's actually really detailed with sub-tensions. It's important because no matter what magnification you're at, your sub-tension hash marks are always accurate, and you don't need a different ballistics chart for different magnifications. In other words, at 500 yards you fire on the third hash mark for zero - whether you're at 6x or 24x the third hash mark lands dead center at 500 yards. You can also use the MOA hashes to judge range.



If the paper target you're shooting at is 24" across, you line it up in your scope and count the hashes - so in your scope you see your target, and you put it on a tree you have no damn idea how far away it is. And since you tossed a grand down on your scope you couldn't afford a laser range finder. So, you see your target is 6 hash marks across - or 6 MOA. You do a simple range calculation since you know 1 MOA = 95.5:

24 x 95.5
-------- = 382 yards away.
6

and then you move to your preset for the range, and bam - dead center shot. Your NF should have these hashes as well, however I don't know if your scope is an FFP, so you have to have different charts and tables for different magnifications. If you're not on the right magnification or your charts get messed up you'll be off. That's one of the features I like about the PST and it's price point. The NF may be clearer as far as glass, but a CA'ed sheet of paper or a crystal clear sheet of paper doesn't mean anything if you shoot high 8"

[03trubluGT]

It's been a loooooong time since I shopped for glass, or did any serious long range shooting, but I was under the impression that you don't want your zoom to vary with your reticle when zooming.

You want them to zoom at the exact power that is relative to distance, or some shit like that.

I really like the reticle on the NightForce (NP-1 RR) because you put it at a set power, and put figure out what circle fits the head of the subject you are trying to snipe (well, it's sold as the size of a prairie dog, but coincidentally, the size of the average prairie dog is the same as an adult human head from top to bottom - 9"). You then take the range of the subject and use the corresponding holdover.

[bronco71]

Dang Matt, I think I need a bigger pic....LOL

[03trubluGT]

Dang Matt, I think I need a bigger pic....LOL

I had no idea it was that big when I linked it, LOL!

[CJ]

It's been a loooooong time since I shopped for glass, or did any serious long range shooting, but I was under the impression that you don't want your zoom to vary with your reticle when zooming.

You want them to zoom at the exact power that is relative to distance, or some shit like that.

I really like the reticle on the NightForce (NP-1 RR) because you put it at a set power, and put figure out what circle fits the head of the subject you are trying to snipe (well, it's sold as the size of a prairie dog, but coincidentally, the size of the average prairie dog is the same as an adult human head from top to bottom - 9"). You then take the range of the subject and use the corresponding holdover.

That's correct, you want your reticle to zoom with your magnification. In order to have accurate subtensions at any magnification, you must have a FFP scope. If you do not, when you zoom in all the hash marks will be wrong, unless you have a ballistics card accurate to the exact magnification you happen to be at. I believe yours is not a FFP, take a look through it and zoom it in, see if the reticle stays the same size, or if it grows as you zoom.


first focal plane:

[03trubluGT]

I just pulled mine out of the safe, and the reticle does not zoom.

When I bought mine, it was desirable to NOT have the reticle zoom with the magnification. It's kind of like clothing styles. They come in, and go out.

[03trubluGT]

If you zoom in and the reticle zooms as well, that means the markings increase in size and cover more of the target, right??