_______SPIKE Group Buy FINAL order_______

[nightfly2000]

Zach, nightfly2000 and Lonnie L. are the same person....its me! thanks for all your hard work!

[PeeWeeC5]

Zach, nightfly2000 and Lonnie L. are the same person....its me! thanks for all your hard work!

Thanks for catching that.

[68RR]

Zach...

thanks much from the guys in Tulsa!

Bill

[YALE]

Dude, you rock Zach!

[GeorgeG.]

awesome man! thanks for doing this.... now we need to keep an eye out for availability for the rest of the parts.

[Veight7]

Thanks for setting this up. Awesome job can't wait till the order comes in.

[Veight7]

Maybe I missed it but do we have an estimated date yet? is it still 8-12mo or is it longer now that they see the size of the order?

[PeeWeeC5]

Maybe I missed it but do we have an estimated date yet? is it still 8-12mo or is it longer now that they see the size of the order?

I was told we should currently expect 8-12mo. but as Spikes gets abetted grasp on things we'll be updated as far as delivery.

[black2002ls]

Hopefully, things will begin to cool down and availability will return to pre-panic levels and the time frame will get shorter

[slow06]

Hopefully, things will begin to cool down and availability will return to pre-panic levels and the time frame will get shorter

I'm hoping for the same, but trying to forget about this until March 2014

[MILK]

Damn, I cannot belive I missed this deal.

[Jimbo]

Looks good, thanks again.

[Strychnine]

You guys make sure you cross your Ts, dot your Is and keep this all above board:
ATF going after someone who organized a "group buy" on lowers

The original thread was on northeastshooters.com but it has been removed.


This was the speculation last month:

Could be related to the March ATF Bulletin about drop shipping/brokering - https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...3_volume_2.pdf

See brokering of firearms section, specifically:

Individuals who engage in the business of brokering firearms by buying firearms from a manufacturer, selling those firearms to a licensed third person, and then arranging with the manufacturer to have the firearms dropped shipped to the purchaser, are required to obtain a Federal firearms license.

And then there was this update today (from the ATF response letter):

The question raised by the group buys described above is whether the coordinating member is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms as defined by the GCA, and is therefore required to have a FFL. ATF has previously determined that certain firearms "brokering” activities require a FFL. For example, if an individual sends orders to a manufacturer in his or her own capacity, is billed by the manufacturer for the firearms, and in turn, bills or otherwise collects payment and profits from the individual purchasers, that person would be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms and must be properly licensed. This is the case even though the person does not actually receive, possess, transport or ship some or all of the firearms. On the other hand, if the individual’s only role in the transaction is to advertise the availability of firearms and forward all of the orders to the manufacturer, a license would not be required.

As discussed above, the typical group buy process entails the coordinating member either collecting payment for the ordered items and forwarding it to the supplier, or the participating members paying the supplier directly. Direct payment from the participating members to the supplier does not constitute engaging in the business of dealing in firearms if the coordinating member is not purchasing firearms by submitting orders on behalf of others, or participating in the billing and payment process. In this situation, the coordinating member receives nothing of value in return for his services. This would be the recommended method of conducting future group buys.

We understand that having the coordinating member collect and transmit payment to the supplies may, in some cases, be a more efficient practice. This may also be acceptable provided the coordinating member does not profit or intend to profit from coordinating the group buy. If the coordinating member is simply advising the participating members of an opportunity to purchase firearms at a discounted price, and facilitating the transfer of funds without a profit motive, the member is not engaged in the business of dealing in firearms and no FFL is required. However, please be aware that "profit” is not limited to simply monies, but can include anything of value, including free or reduced price products from the supplier or the participating members. Accordingly, provided these concerns are properly met, coordination of group buys in this manner does not require an FFL.

While this one worked out ok for all involved keep in mind that they are watching and they will try to F you hard if you screw up at all.

[slow06]

You guys make sure you cross your Ts, dot your Is and keep this all above board:
ATF going after someone who organized a "group buy" on lowers

The original thread was on northeastshooters.com but it has been removed.


This was the speculation last month:




And then there was this update today (from the ATF response letter):




While this one worked out ok for all involved keep in mind that they are watching and they will try to F you hard if you screw up at all.

Interesting, thanks for posting that.

I believe PeeWee did place 1 big order and we sent our money to him, but he is receiving nothing of value from us (the buyers), and the lowers are going directly to the FFL so things will be in compliance from that standpoint.