Open Carry

[stevo]

Open carry, a cocksucker hat plus a Mare's Leg and we can all look like Tallahassee from Zombieland.

Stevo

[Baron Von Crowder]

Open carry, a cocksucker hat plus a Mare's Leg and we can all look like Tallahassee from Zombieland.

Stevo

In.

[Nash B.]

There's nothing in Chapter 46 of the Texas Penal Code that says it's illegal to carry, concealed or not, a long gun (or an NFA item), except for the usual places.

[sc281]

I really, really think you're stretching here. Someone conceal carrying isn't going to be a threat to them. You choose when you draw, and most likely it's when he isn't focused on you. You only get advantages from this.

How many of your scenario has happened in OC states? Not a bunch, considering each one would be breaking news for the anti gun media.

You're arguing probabilities, and while they certsinly could happen, many states have conducted this experiment with millions of people participating, and the results are out there to see.


I totally understand what you are getting at. I agree with you that cc is less risky, but more risky than cc shouldn't mean we ban oc.

[S_K]

There's nothing in Chapter 46 of the Texas Penal Code that says it's illegal to carry, concealed or not, a long gun (or an NFA item), except for the usual places.

Most cities have an ordanance against it. Carry an AK down the street and most likely go for a ride and have a tough time getting your rifle back.

[CJ]

How many of your scenario has happened in OC states? Not a bunch, considering each one would be breaking news for the anti gun media.

You're arguing probabilities, and while they certsinly could happen, many states have conducted this experiment with millions of people participating, and the results are out there to see.


I totally understand what you are getting at. I agree with you that cc is less risky, but more risky than cc shouldn't mean we ban oc.

I've given reasons why I like OC, but it's primarily to protect CC. That's a good point about OC, and the truth is very few people actually do OC even in those states per capita. I personally have never really heard a good solid reason why OC is beneficial, most of the time (like the deterrent reason) it does have some theoretical merit, but the negatives seem to vastly outweigh the positives. And from a 2nd Amendment perspective it concerns me using the liabilities of OC as leverage for the anti-gun crowd.

[Machx2]

Cops open carry every day, yet they never get jumped. Why would another person, open carrying, get jumped? Because the cop is perceived to have more power, and the citizen wouldn't be? I would think that the odds wouldn't be that different in the two scenarios.

Thoughts?

Police officers have been jumped, but I get what you mean, meaning it isn't in the norm. The penalty is much higher if someone were to jump an officer and try to take his weapon. Not sure if that is a deterrent, or just the badge itself. I in no way believe a cop is more qualified to carry a gun on his hip, more so than an average citizen (I have seen some cops officers shoot not so well). What our day to day is like with a gun on our hip is being very conscious of our surroundings. Watching your back and protecting that gun. It gets old real quick. Once I take my badge off, I won't be strapping that thing on my hip to go out on a stroll. I enjoy being an average person when not working and not caring what is going on around me. That is my preference of course and will continue to be if this passes. I understand the whole printing argument, it makes sense. I am not for or against open carry. Frankly it doesn't matter to me. Keep in mind, if you are open carrying you will get unwanted attention which we get everyday. People talking trash ect.

[David]

I see what you're saying. However, the law doesn't consider a long gun concealable, so you're under disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct.

I don't know that it would fall under that section. I've always been curious.

[S_K]

...from a 2nd Amendment perspective it concerns me using the liabilities of OC as leverage for the anti-gun crowd.

Yeah anything they can do to portray us as a bunch of gun tot'in crazies ready to snap the moment we enter a "gun free zone" will just further their cause.

[CJ]

There's nothing in Chapter 46 of the Texas Penal Code that says it's illegal to carry, concealed or not, a long gun (or an NFA item), except for the usual places.

You're right, it doesn't and now I understand what David was saying. I was basically arguing the fact that your CHL does not allow you to conceal carry a long gun, sbs, sbr, or rifle. That is specifically defined. So does a CHL allow you conceal carry a long gun, rifle, or sbr? No, it does not allow you to do that.

However, in Chapter 46 it does not list a long gun as being unlawful, however, in state law I know that carrying a long gun in public can be charged as disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace at an officer's discretion, so it falls into that category. So to me it's a gray area that will more than likely get you in trouble. But, it's interesting. Ask Matt what he would do in that situation to get a better idea.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

(3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place;

(4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

(5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

(6) fights with another in a public place;

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

(9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road;

(10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act; or

(11) for a lewd or unlawful purpose:

(A) enters on the property of another and looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in the dwelling;

(B) while on the premises of a hotel or comparable establishment, looks into a guest room not the person's own through a window or other opening in the room; or

(C) while on the premises of a public place, looks into an area such as a restroom or shower stall or changing or dressing room that is designed to provide privacy to a person using the area.

(b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor had significant provocation for his abusive or threatening conduct.

(c) For purposes of this section:

(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and

(2) a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.

(f) Subsections (a)(1), (2), (3), (5), and (6) do not apply to a person who, at the time the person engaged in conduct prohibited under the applicable subdivision, was a student in the sixth grade or a lower grade level, and the prohibited conduct occurred at a public school campus during regular school hours.

So this the inevitable conclusion. What is "calculated to alarm" mean? Well, if it alarms anyone that means it's visible. And if it's visible then it isn't concealed. And I think it isn't going to be difficult to convince 12 of your peers that having a long gun in a trench-coat is alarming.

[sc281]

I've given reasons why I like OC, but it's primarily to protect CC. That's a good point about OC, and the truth is very few people actually do OC even in those states per capita. I personally have never really heard a good solid reason why OC is beneficial, most of the time (like the deterrent reason) it does have some theoretical merit, but the negatives seem to vastly outweigh the positives. And from a 2nd Amendment perspective it concerns me using the liabilities of OC as leverage for the anti-gun crowd.

The main liability i see is people freaking out when seeing one. That is fixed by people knowing it is legal.

The others, while possible,, aren't playing out as often as one would think. While you velieve that it may do some damage for pro gun, I dont see enough of a threat iplaying out n real life to necessitate taking that freedom away from everyone.

I cant remember the man who said it, but I woukd rather suffer the consequences of too much liberty than the consequences of not enough.

We are obviously on different sides of the argument, but I respect your point of view, and I'm glad to read it.

[ceyko]

I am not for or against open carry. Frankly it doesn't matter to me. Keep in mind, if you are open carrying you will get unwanted attention which we get everyday. People talking trash ect.

I would not be against laws treating people who jump a person carrying concealed or open to be the same as jumping a LEO. Don't have to call it the samething..

In the end, my opinion is some of y'all are sounding borderline liberal on this topic. You have valid points, but generally dismiss counter-arguments that are valid. I'd call it straight up a liberal point of view, but you do actually have valid points - which is not typical of a liberal that I've seen.

[Baron Von Crowder]

You're right, it doesn't and now I understand what David was saying. I was basically arguing the fact that your CHL does not allow you to conceal carry a long gun, sbs, sbr, or rifle. That is specifically defined. So does a CHL allow you conceal carry a long gun, rifle, or sbr? No, it does not allow you to do that.

However, in Chapter 46 it does not list a long gun as being unlawful, however, in state law I know that carrying a long gun in public can be charged as disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace at an officer's discretion, so it falls into that category. So to me it's a gray area that will more than likely get you in trouble. But, it's interesting. Ask Matt what he would do in that situation to get a better idea.

he didnt say display, he said conceled.

[Vertnut]

How many of your scenario has happened in OC states? Not a bunch, considering each one would be breaking news for the anti gun media.

You're arguing probabilities, and while they certsinly could happen, many states have conducted this experiment with millions of people participating, and the results are out there to see.


I totally understand what you are getting at. I agree with you that cc is less risky, but more risky than cc shouldn't mean we ban oc.

None of which are as big (or bad) as Dallas, Houston, etc. Crime can happen when the opportunity presents itself. Likely? Nope. Possible? Damn right.

[Trick Pony]

The main liability i see is people freaking out when seeing one. That is fixed by people knowing it is legal.

Heck, in Philly even the cops didn't seem to know it was legal when they accosted that guy open carrying on the street.