PT 58hc or FN 57?

[ARIX]

Did I ask what 5.7 is? No. I asked a very specific question and you failed to address it. How familiar are you with the 5.7 round? Are you talking about soft armor, or hard armor? Why on earth is your other consideration a .380?

You asked a specific question about a subject I am inquiring about. Why would I be asking if I already knew? Are you just trying to be an asshat? Or do you have anything informative to contribute?

[dee]

Civilian ammo will not penetrate body armor but is a nasty little soft tissue round but expensive to feed.

[ThreeFingerPete]

You asked a specific question about a subject I am inquiring about. Why would I be asking if I already knew? Are you just trying to be an asshat? Or do you have anything informative to contribute?

My point is that it seems that you skimmed the wikipedia article without trying to absorb any other pertinent info.

First: The AP ammunition is no longer for sale to civilians. Good luck in finding it without spending a fortune.

Second: Current civilian 5.7 ammo is relatively weak, with almost 1,000fps variance between the mild commercial and the hotter military ammuntion. Demonstrated by a link that was on the wiki page you posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm , and there have been plenty of studies showing intermittent penetration through soft body armor.

To me, the 5.7 is not a particularly impressive firearm (ugly, some problems with reliability, a known defect with the magazine catch spring...) and the 5.7 caliber is similarly unimpressive for most civilian uses. This is a perfect example of something cool developed and watered down so much by the time civilians get their hands on it, that it's basically a novelty.

FWIW, there are other calibers that can be used in more commonplace firearms that will also penetrate 3a body armor, and still allow you to use ammunition that's common and reasonable enough to practice and be proficient. There is no cheap plinking ammo for 5.7.

[dee]

^^ I agree if you want high capacity with power get an STI 2011 chambered in 38 Super then find an ammo source that loads to full power levels.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Even an XDM in 9mm holds 19+1. There are 9mm AP rounds available.

[CJ]

8 rounds of .45 is plenty.

[ThreeFingerPete]

8 rounds of .45 is plenty.

Single stack mags disappear in a back pocket. I rarely feel under-gunned with 24 rounds of .45

[ARIX]

My point is that it seems that you skimmed the wikipedia article without trying to absorb any other pertinent info.

First: The AP ammunition is no longer for sale to civilians. Good luck in finding it without spending a fortune.

Second: Current civilian 5.7 ammo is relatively weak, with almost 1,000fps variance between the mild commercial and the hotter military ammuntion. Demonstrated by a link that was on the wiki page you posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7%C3%9728mm , and there have been plenty of studies showing intermittent penetration through soft body armor.

To me, the 5.7 is not a particularly impressive firearm (ugly, some problems with reliability, a known defect with the magazine catch spring...) and the 5.7 caliber is similarly unimpressive for most civilian uses. This is a perfect example of something cool developed and watered down so much by the time civilians get their hands on it, that it's basically a novelty.

FWIW, there are other calibers that can be used in more commonplace firearms that will also penetrate 3a body armor, and still allow you to use ammunition that's common and reasonable enough to practice and be proficient. There is no cheap plinking ammo for 5.7.

This is exactly the info I was looking for. Thank you. I did not know the civilian round was so much weaker than the military round or about the reliablity issues. I did know that I had not seen any ammo on the shelves and that it is pretty pricey.

[ARIX]

Even an XDM in 9mm holds 19+1. There are 9mm AP rounds available.

Well the 380 idea is out the window now. I'm going to check into one of these.

[GAP]

Tokarev, great penetration, $200 gun, and cheap ammo when you can find it.

[CJ]

Tokarev, great penetration, $200 gun, and cheap ammo when you can find it.

True, but you need to use pappa shaw ammo, and it's dried up mostly.