FYI - $99 .22 silencer sale until May 31st

[goofygrin]

I've filed a dispute with my cc (earlier this week).

[phaux]

So.... Called the ATF today trying to see what to do about this situation, long story short, ATF has no jurisdiction on this.

Contacted their main number, they said to contact Dallas, called Dallas, they said to call Indianapolis, called them, they said to call N Indiana, called them, spoke to the assistant, he seemed to not know much, he transfered me to an agent, he knew something!

Here's what I learned: Several people have called and complained so they're looking into it a little but they said fraud is not what they deal with. The company still has their FFL and will get to keep it unless a they are found guilty of a criminal charge at which point the ATF will then step in and revoke their FFL license. Apparently ripping people off/scamming is not grounds for an FFL license to be revoked I was told, crazy I know. The ATF sent someone out to talk to them but their seems to be no one at the shop. I was told an FFL from Texas was able to get info on them from the ATF as he is an FFL and he is pursuing criminal charges via the post office for fraud.

If anyone knows who this FFL is please let me know as I would like to get in on that.

The ATF took down my info and said they would contact me if anything came of it. The agent I spoke to said he has actually never heard of a situation like this happening.

The ATF office I contacted was 260-424-4440 and the special agent looking into the matter is a Craig Edwards. Please contact him/them to file a complaint and find out any further info.

Once again, please contact the ATF and complain. Maybe if we get enough people in on this they'll do something. I don't expect to get my money back but I would like to see these people busted.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Sounds like you need call the PD in Jefferson Township / Kendallville, IN / Noble County and report the theft, and advise them that the ATF as been notified but cant take any actions.

[YALE]

So.... Called the ATF today trying to see what to do about this situation, long story short, ATF has no jurisdiction on this.

Contacted their main number, they said to contact Dallas, called Dallas, they said to call Indianapolis, called them, they said to call N Indiana, called them, spoke to the assistant, he seemed to not know much, he transfered me to an agent, he knew something!

Here's what I learned: Several people have called and complained so they're looking into it a little but they said fraud is not what they deal with. The company still has their FFL and will get to keep it unless a they are found guilty of a criminal charge at which point the ATF will then step in and revoke their FFL license. Apparently ripping people off/scamming is not grounds for an FFL license to be revoked I was told, crazy I know. The ATF sent someone out to talk to them but their seems to be no one at the shop. I was told an FFL from Texas was able to get info on them from the ATF as he is an FFL and he is pursuing criminal charges via the post office for fraud.

If anyone knows who this FFL is please let me know as I would like to get in on that.

The ATF took down my info and said they would contact me if anything came of it. The agent I spoke to said he has actually never heard of a situation like this happening.

The ATF office I contacted was 260-424-4440 and the special agent looking into the matter is a Craig Edwards. Please contact him/them to file a complaint and find out any further info.

Once again, please contact the ATF and complain. Maybe if we get enough people in on this they'll do something. I don't expect to get my money back but I would like to see these people busted.

What about, "...innocent until proven guilty in a court of law," is hard to understand?

[phaux]

What about, "...innocent until proven guilty in a court of law," is hard to understand?

Nothing about it is hard to understand, I'm not sure what your comment has to to with helping/progression of those ripped off. My problem lies with the fact they've ripped off probably well over 100 people and with multiple complaints the ATF can't/won't do anything about it. Thus, there being a known problem, there license is still active. With that they can continue ripping people off or start another company. An issue like this can easily takes months before charges are even brought up, then several months before a case goes to court, the whole time more people could be scammed. Should situations like this arise, the ATF should step in and take a look at the situation and if fraud is thought to be present, revoke or at least put an FFL on hold.

[KBScobravert]

Paging HRT4me, paging HRT4me!

This is a great thread for you to come into and give our fellow board members some insight into how this "fraud" thing involving a FFL and NFA items is allowed to go unchecked.

So how about it, care to provide us/them some assistance here? Maybe point these guys in the right direction?

[YALE]

Nothing about it is hard to understand, I'm not sure what your comment has to to with helping/progression of those ripped off. My problem lies with the fact they've ripped off probably well over 100 people and with multiple complaints the ATF can't/won't do anything about it. Thus, there being a known problem, there license is still active. With that they can continue ripping people off or start another company. An issue like this can easily takes months before charges are even brought up, then several months before a case goes to court, the whole time more people could be scammed. Should situations like this arise, the ATF should step in and take a look at the situation and if fraud is thought to be present, revoke or at least put an FFL on hold.

Apparently, it still escapes you. Has the manufacturer declared an intention to defraud people anywhere? Is it possible they just went under, and they're avoiding dealing with individuals until they can unwind the whole shebang in bankruptcy court? I can understand being pissed off that you lost your hundo, but that doesn't mean the federal government should go in and decide things arbitrarily. That is why we have courts. At present, you have an accusation. That is not the same thing as a conviction, and no matter how emotionally you were attached to that $100, you can't substitute one for the other. You can't just call down a swat team because your benji went missing. You make a complaint, and if the complaint holds water, it becomes a criminal prosecution. If it doesn't, you can file a claim in small claims court. I know that mean ol' SOT stole your lunch money, and if this is the hill you want to die on, more power to you, but know this: that money may just be gone, and the business with it. That's the risk you take with a false economy, and a lot of businesses fail trying to get off the ground, trying to give the house away, or both. The government isn't typically allowed t go in and punish people because one person accused another of wrongdoing, and I'm glad things are that way. You're entitled to recourse, but he's also entitled to due process.

[David]

I agree with the ATF on that one. Nothing they can do until someone provides facts of the matter instead of he said she said.

[Ruffdaddy]

Sometimes if it looks too good to be true...

But I do hope everyone at least gets something out of this! What a cluster f...

[dee]

I'm glad I didn't jump on this deal, sucks for the people that did though.