Got my Form 4 CLEO signoff back today

[Dacotua]

Id like to see august but Ive prepared for Dec

[Dacotua]

With a trust there is no transfer.

If someone steals my machine gun and commits a crime I am not liable in civil or criminal court. The gun belongs to the trust not ME.

On a CLEO you are 100% liable.

Trust provides legal shelter.

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If someone steals a gun, you arent liable at all.

Example, if you left a 22 in your car, it gets stolen. You report it stolen, then its used in a crime. You are NOT liable at all.

[CJ]

Government already has your picture and fingerprints.

You got a Texas DL, they got your pic and at least a thumb print

You got a CHL, they have your pic and all your fingerprints.

Got any federal licenses, they got your pic and fingerprints

Military? They got your pic, prints and DNA

Picture and prints dont bother me, they have it already

Fair enough - I'd rather not have my prints at a federal level. Right now mine are only state. So, the advantages with going with a trust is additional legal protection, no hassle of CLEO signoff, no hassle of form 5's, and multiple legal owners of a firearms. So basically, a trust gives you more rights.

[Nash B.]

With a trust you need to stay on top of it.

What do you mean, stay on top of it? Just add each item to the schedule as you get it?

[CJ]

What do you mean, stay on top of it? Just add each item to the schedule as you get it?

Yeah that's pretty much all you do.

[Dacotua]

Fair enough - I'd rather not have my prints at a federal level. Right now mine are only state. So, the advantages with going with a trust is additional legal protection, no hassle of CLEO signoff, no hassle of form 5's, and multiple legal owners of a firearms. So basically, a trust gives you more rights.

Got a CHL? If yes the feds got your pics and prints. Remember you had to send in two sets of photos and two set of prints. One went to the state the other the FBI (feds)

Only advantage I see with the trust is muliple users and no Cleo sign off. My guns arent going anywhere without me anyways so multi users dont bother me

[KBScobravert]

I guess it is a "to each their own" situation.

I have 3 suppressors on trust and soon 2 SBR. I never have to ask a CLEO pretty please and that is more than enough reason for me to go the route I have.

[KBScobravert]

What full auto gun did you get?

[Dacotua]

Individual Ownership
Pros:
- Least complicated first purchase. (No need to get a lawyer involved)
- Least expensive because there are no start-up or maintenance costs
Cons:
- Must get fingerprinted for each NFA application
- Must get CLEO sign-off

Trust Ownership
Pros:
- Fingerprinting not required
- CLEO sign-off not requred
- Reasonable one-time start-up fee with no annual fees
Cons:
- Must submit a copy of trust with the form 4 for each purchase
- A trust ends after the death of the founder of the trust. This necessitates that all items be Form 4 transferred out or surrendered to the ATF

[Dacotua]

Got me a M2 carbine

[KBScobravert]

I am not trying to change your mind here but hear me out in the bold.

Individual Ownership
Pros:
- Least complicated first purchase. (No need to get a lawyer involved)(see answer below)- Least expensive because there are no start-up or maintenance costs (there was someone on the board selling a trust starter kit for $50, not that expensive for a legal binding document according to the state of texas)
Cons:
- Must get fingerprinted for each NFA application
- Must get CLEO sign-off

Trust Ownership
Pros:
- Fingerprinting not required
- CLEO sign-off not requred
- Reasonable one-time start-up fee with no annual fees (see above and the $50 comment)
Cons:
- Must submit a copy of trust with the form 4 for each purchase (simple copy machine, copies do not need to be notarized only the original)-
A trust ends after the death of the founder of the trust. This necessitates that all items be Form 4 transferred out or surrendered to the ATF (my trust does not end with the death of me; the Settler (founder). It is a living entity as there are beneficiaries if all trustees pass, no Form 4/5 is required only that they be eligible (ie not felons). The trust is not a person it cannot die unless disbanded by the Settler and Trustees. The document will live forever and the stamps are associated with it not an individual. Trustees can be added or removed very simply as can changes be made to beneficiaries.)

[Chopped54]

I prefer individual.

With a trust you need to stay on top of it.

Only advatage of a trust is that you can put multiple people on the trust.

FYI The batf is thinking of removing the CLEO Signature off the forms this year. They are also thinking about making it manditory for all trust members to send photos and fingerprints. This is due to a felon buying a machine gun via trust.

How when a 4473 and individual background check had to be done when he picked it up?

[KBScobravert]

How when a 4473 and individual background check had to be done when he picked it up?

if it is true, the felon could have been merely on the trust as a trustee. When the device is picked up I would imagine that anyone on the trust can do so. The 4473 is not called in just like a CHL purchase.

[Dacotua]

How when a 4473 and individual background check had to be done when he picked it up?

Two peope on trust or he was added later

[David]

How when a 4473 and individual background check had to be done when he picked it up?

Theres no call in on a 4473 when one buys an nfa item as the background has already been done.

The rest of the thread, who cares.