Street robberies and you - The Basics

[DON SVO]

all that stuff is pretty much common knowledge. good read for someone who is naive i guess, or someone who just recently moved into a big city

I have re-read that entire thread 3 times. Blitz308s thread twice. Great insight and very practical.

[grove rat]

all that stuff is pretty much common knowledge. good read for someone who is naive i guess, or someone who just recently moved into a big city

[GeorgeG.]

Sticky?

I think that's a good idea. I practically read this every time it's brought back up. It's a good refresh

[Darren M]

Sticky?

[futant]

good information in here!

My wifes been wanting to do the whole CHL thing and I'm trying to explain to her the good and the BAD about it.
It can be a little hard to explain to someone the vast legal consequences of doing anything even slightly wrong with a gun.

A good CHL instructor goes a long long way. PAY ATTENTION , WTF else are you gonna do there the whole time anyway?

I also agree with the posts that you can carry a long , long time and never ever need it.
IMO , doing the whole CHL thing is very inconvienent if you live somewhere you feel pretty safe about. Of course the internet gun gurus would find that line hard to accept but the odds are there but they are so damn low.

Definitely , guys avoid the road rage shit.
It just isn't worth getting angry about. Much less doing something that could cost you your freedom. That was a good legal example MikeC posted.

another example i can think of , in carrollton of all places, a friend of mine was run down in his truck by some gangster black guys for no reason.
They chased him around until he hit a dead end in some apartments.
He's a boxer in college and dropped one of them when they got out and jumped him.
the other hit him over the back of head with a 40 bottle and knocked him out.
I think some ppl called it in, so the hood rats took off. However he got a couple dozen stitches and a lot of blood loss.

So you never know how those road rage incidents could turn out. I don't even know if my friend could have aggrevated them, though he says he didn't .
They just came hauling ass up behind him late at night.
I asked him if he had a gun, would he have shot them. He said ABSOLUTELY.
They were unarmed, and I question if after he shot one or more of the three, would he still be a airline pilot after all those legal proceedings ?
It would have turned out a lot of he said / she said in the end if it went to court. Its not inconceivable to get involuntary manslaughter.

or maybe they would have tucked tail when he showed a pistol ?
who knows, but the point is you really need to think about these things when you carry.
It is almost always better to avoid conflict to your fullest ability, including flee.

BTW my friend in this story basically believes it was a case of mistaken identity by these black dudes. There is no reason to believe otherwise, knowing him for so long. That or it's best assumed a purely racist attack, since they seemed to want to attack from the very onset and be drunk.

[ceyko]

I'm simply trying to understand here in order to make the right decision because this is a big one for me that covers a personal thing. Am I right for carrying? Is my hesitation a good thing or bad thing? I could see that going both ways. At home, I have no issues with it all. Come through a window or the door when you shouldn't, time to get blasted with a shotgun. There is no grey area in that situation. Outside of the home is a different thing that makes me very cautious.

I must've said it 10,000 times on this board, or 10 or 15 times. Don't cheap out on the CHL class and pay attention the whole time. That's step #1 to having a better understanding. IMHO, the CHL instructors are going to teach a very conservative side of it for CYA - so you'll get the strictest possible instruction on it.

Then be sure to read any and every situation where someone used their CCW to get an idea of the grey areas.

I've been carrying 3-4 years now and have not had the need to even THINK about pulling my gun - that I can recall. I also changed my habits a little to, to make sure I avoid any and all possible problems - ESPECIALLY dipshits on the road. I just ignore it and move on. No yelling, honking, middle fingers...etc. Tempers blow up and now you may PUT yourself in a situation that is bad. Maybe the other driver disables your car and hurts you in the process...etc...etc. In my opinion, the CHL holder is responsible for making sure a situation does not escalate if he/she can do so. This alone has actually made my life easier to be honest.

I also lock up guns prior to alcohol consumption.

Edit: Also, as mentioned - getting older. There are also people out there better than you, always. Finally, the biggest reason for me is to make sure I'm the center of attention with family if something goes crazy. You maybe a bad ass, but if there are 2 or more and you're trying to keep family corralled against a legitimate threat - you'll be glad to have that tool (gun) on you.

[VaderTT]

Don "street robbed" my heart.

[mikec]

We don't have any issues bro. I wasn't there, so of course I'm going to ask questions. I have no alterior motives when asking you questions. You can relax and drop the satire. I'm simply trying to understand the situation. The idea of carrying a weapon is an odd but interesting to me idea. My background and experience with firearms is MUCH different than you fellas here in Texas. The attitude in regards to firearms here vastly different as well.

I hope you accept my explantion.

I'm good man! Thanks for the explanation as well. Don has it covered pretty well with his post, the only thing that I can really add is that if you are carrying, and find yourself in a situation in which the average person feels that their life is in danger, you will more than likely be exonerated. Odds are you will never find yourself in this type of situation, but still. I've carried almost every day for approximately 16 years and only once have I been in a situation in which I felt it was needed.

Fwiw, I think it would be wise if you were to do so. You're getting older and slower every day... lol

[DON SVO]

So am I reading this wrong? I work for a charter school system. I know when visiting my kids' school, I can leave it in the car, but reading this tells me that if I work for a school, I can't.

That's a different animal... gov't entities operate on their own accord and you have to follow their guidelines.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

So am I reading this wrong? I work for a charter school system. I know when visiting my kids' school, I can leave it in the car, but reading this tells me that if I work for a school, I can't.

Ok, I didn't see this as I was posting the other.

Yeah, that seems to say you cannot. :/

[BERNIE MOSFET]

sheesh, I need to find a holster that fits me well so I can carry more often. my problem is I don't typically like over sized shirts or pants. I can fit my .380 in the front pocket of most of my pants but I'd prefer to carry the .45.

Unfortunately, my current job prohibits it as well and Bernie's post just confirmed it.

You might check with an attorney, but my understanding of this is that they cannot specifically prohibit keeping a personal weapon locked up in a personal vehicle on their property (not premises) as a condition of employment, provided you are licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (your CHL). That means MPA is not enough to override company policy regarding weapons in personal vehicles.

Now, that's not to say they cannot terminate your employment for any other reason, or just because they want to as Texas is an at-will employment state. At first glance, Sec. 52.063 seems to favor a business' interests, but I think it favors a CHL holder moreso; it provides incentive to a business to accept the "risk" of weapons on the property, rather than take a mitigated, known loss through a settlement for unlawful termination of employment. Without that section, I absolutely see business' legal departments making a point of recommending the cost of a settlement over accepting the liability should someone go postal and they didn't do due diligence in preventing it through prohibition.

[GeorgeG.]

.......Texas passed this law last year, Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.:

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

There's all this other language too:

Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;
....

So am I reading this wrong? I work for a charter school system. I know when visiting my kids' school, I can leave it in the car, but reading this tells me that if I work for a school, I can't.

[DON SVO]

sheesh, I need to find a holster that fits me well so I can carry more often. my problem is I don't typically like over sized shirts or pants. I can fit my .380 in the front pocket of most of my pants but I'd prefer to carry the .45.

Unfortunately, my current job prohibits it as well and Bernie's post just confirmed it.

Bernie's post just stated the language the PREVENTS your employer from prohibiting weapons on premises. You can carry in your car.

[DON SVO]

I'm simply trying to understand here in order to make the right decision because this is a big one for me that covers a personal thing. Am I right for carrying? Is my hesitation a good thing or bad thing? I could see that going both ways. At home, I have no issues with it all. Come through a window or the door when you shouldn't, time to get blasted with a shotgun. There is no grey area in that situation. Outside of the home is a different thing that makes me very cautious.

I hope you accept my explantion.

Well, here's what I hope makes sense for you because that's a pretty valid concern.

In Texas, Castle Doctrine enables you to rightfully protect your person, property and family with the use of deadly force if warranted. There's a lot of legal jargon that I'm not going to post up (it's already been done), but it pretty well covers you and protects you from civil liability on a good shoot. So there's that.

A CHL is not specifically an extension of Castle Doctrine. What a CHL basically does is legally allow you to conceal a carry weapon in order to protect yourself at all times (emphasis on LEGALLY). If you shoot someone over a parking spot, or get caught carrying a weapon where it's restricted, or shoot your own self because you're a moron the CHL won't help you. What it WILL do is prevent you from being caught somewhere without a way to save yourself (should it come to that). If you get stuck and accosted by multiple assailants and one is armed, no amount of badassery will save you. Give them your wallet, your watch, your car keys and HOPE the thug is telling the truth when he says he won't kill you or go to your house and rob you or rape your wife etc.

If you attend a good CHL class, it will outline for you when you are justified in using lethal force. It'll teach you what to do if you DO have to shoot someone. A perfect world dictates that I won't get robbed or assaulted or murdered, and that I would NEVER need to have a firearm. In reality I would prefer to have the option. It's definitely a personal choice with consequences (good and bad) going with either carrying or not. I am a fan of the former.

[GeorgeG.]

sheesh, I need to find a holster that fits me well so I can carry more often. my problem is I don't typically like over sized shirts or pants. I can fit my .380 in the front pocket of most of my pants but I'd prefer to carry the .45.

Unfortunately, my current job prohibits it as well and Bernie's post just confirmed it.