Street robberies and you - The Basics

[mikec]

How do you guys handle the crazy fucks that don't care if you have a gun.
I have seen 2 situations where the aggressor didn't give a shit.
First one the aggressor was like, what are you going to do with that, shoot me, etc.
Second situation, the aggressor "dared" me to draw.

You're gonna have to work on your "bad man" face bro. Maybe grow a handlebar mustache...


In my experience if they buy what you're selling they're not going to test it. Only once, years ago, I had a guy being a total asshat, cutting me off in traffic, brake checking, etc. We hit a side street at which point he decided he was going to jump out and charge me, at which point I stepped one foot out of the B2000, put one arm over the door frame, and held the shiny little 38 right above the inspection sticker, inside the cab. He caught a glimpse and instantly turned away, without my saying even one word. And I'm not a scary looking dude.

In short, I sold him. Not many are going to challenge a gun if they believe you'll use it.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

I heard a story recently about a business walking dogs through parking lots sniffing for contraband. They turned up a firearm in someone's vehicle and they fired the individual for violating their weapons policy. So the story goes, the individual immediately brought a suit. A week after, they changed their policy to allow weapons in employee's vehicles.



Don, I think that you can keep your weapon locked up in your car now without undue worry - should it be discovered.

Texas passed this law last year, Added by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1058, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2011.:

Sec. 52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

There's all this other language too:

Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;
(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:
(i) that contains the physical plant;
(ii) that is not open to the public; and
(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.
(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

Sec. 52.063. IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. (a) Except in cases of gross negligence, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, is not liable in a civil action for personal injury, death, property damage, or any other damages resulting from or arising out of an occurrence involving a firearm or ammunition that the employer is required to allow on the employer's property under this subchapter.
(b) The presence of a firearm or ammunition on an employer's property under the authority of this subchapter does not by itself constitute a failure by the employer to provide a safe workplace.
(c) For purposes of this section, a public or private employer, or the employer's principal, officer, director, employee, or agent, does not have a duty:
(1) to patrol, inspect, or secure:
(A) any parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees; or
(B) any privately owned motor vehicle located in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area described by Paragraph (A); or
(2) to investigate, confirm, or determine an employee's compliance with laws related to the ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition or the transportation and storage of a firearm or ammunition.


Sec. 52.064. CONSTRUCTION OF PROVISION RELATING TO IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY. Section 52.063 does not limit or alter the personal liability of:
(1) an individual who causes harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition;
(2) an individual who aids, assists, or encourages another individual to cause harm or injury by using a firearm or ammunition; or
(3) an employee who transports or stores a firearm or ammunition on the property of the employee's employer but who fails to comply with the requirements of Section 52.061.

[Mach1]

How do you guys handle the crazy fucks that don't care if you have a gun.
I have seen 2 situations where the aggressor didn't give a shit.
First one the aggressor was like, what are you going to do with that, shoot me, etc.
Second situation, the aggressor "dared" me to draw.

[pr1042]

so does the recent legislation stating that you CAN have it in your employers parking lot not apply to you? I know this doesn't apply to some types of employers and it is also still fuzzy because legally you can, but not sure what happens if company policy still states that you cannot

[DON SVO]

Well done, Don. Way to go keeping your head clear and staying calm in a tight situation. As you know, I have a few of my own stories of having to do that very thing as well. It's not something everyone is able to do. I'm seriously considering getting my CHL this year.

I say getting a CHL is easy. Buying a CCW that you trust if it's ever needed is tougher. Making the decision to have it on you at all times is the hardest part. My fear isn't that I'll ever have to use it, my fear is that the one time I need the damn thing I won't have it. My job prohibits CHL holders from posessing their firearm on company property, including the parking lot. I have some ugly dwell time in day-to-day activity where I don't have it on me. My fear is I'll get into a spot where having it falls into that time frame before/right after work. I hope that my CCW never leaves the holster except to practice at the range, clean and reload.

As for others who are lackadaisical about carrying, they have an issue where they might get found dead, robbed and their family is left with a laminated plastic trophy that serves no purpose. Try drawing your CHL permit on a would-be attacker. You won't get far. Anyone who expresses any sort of fear regarding aiming a firearm at someone an individual presenting deadly force and pulling the trigger needs to reassess their urge to have a CHL permit. Real life: training programs have demonstrated repeatedly that an athletic individual with a knife can cover 30ft of distance and USE IT before a prepared police officer can draw, aim and fire from an open-carry holster. Hesitation and reluctance can get you killed just as quick as a lack of Situational Awareness.

[Steve]

Well done, Don. Way to go keeping your head clear and staying calm in a tight situation. As you know, I have a few of my own stories of having to do that very thing as well. It's not something everyone is able to do. I'm seriously considering getting my CHL this year.

[DON SVO]

Cops like as little movement as possible until they approach the car and can see what you're doing. They see you leaning over and making motion they don't know what your intentions are. Not sure about TX, in VA CHL information is tied to name of registrant.

Same here in Texas, I have my insurance, DL, CHL in my wallet so when the officer comes to the window I have all 3 prepped and my hands are clear.

[SS Junk]

Also another question for the LEO's. Y'all talk about people telling you "my insurance card is in glove box, so is my weapon." I always get that stuff ready for the LEO before he ever comes up to the car. My thinking is this lets my hands stay on the steering wheel the whole time so he can see them, and I don't have to make any movements. Which do you prefer?

Cops like as little movement as possible until they approach the car and can see what you're doing. They see you leaning over and making motion they don't know what your intentions are. Not sure about TX, in VA CHL information is tied to name of registrant.

[GeorgeG.]

.....Everyone has a certain point of "you're too close", even amongst friends. .......

Run your mouth all you want, flip me off, call my dead mom a whore... Corner me for no reason other than to intimidate me and I'll make sure to let you know it's going to stop. IMMEDIATELY. Contrary to the life-sized vaginas who typically end up the Punch & Rape targets for those who feel "I'm the aggressor so do what I say", I don't give 2 wet shits how big or small they are. God bless Texas, the Castle Doctrine, a spotless record and 165gr 40cal Hydro Shok personal defense rounds.

I agree with this 100%

[mikec]

We have a saying in LE that relates to this article. I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. And in the event that's not possible, I can dig the shit out of a couple years paid leave with benefits...

Fixed...



lol

[mikec]

I was stuck between my door and the gas pump. So running away from my open and unlocked car in mindless fear of the fuck head who, angry because i wanted to pay for my fuel and leave, decided that he was justified in cornering me like a dog was not only impossible but absolutely irresponsible and stupid.

That's why I said I'm pretty sure he was adept at picking up body/positioning cues.

Everyone has a certain point of "you're too close", even amongst friends. That area widens drastically when a situation becomes tense and aggressive. My distance became extremely apparent to this individual once he felt he could come around the backside of my car posturing like he was ready to fight.

Run your mouth all you want, flip me off, call my dead mom a whore... Corner me for no reason other than to intimidate me and I'll make sure to let you know it's going to stop. IMMEDIATELY. Contrary to the life-sized vaginas who typically end up the Punch & Rape targets for those who feel "I'm the aggressor so do what I say", I don't give 2 wet shits how big or small they are. God bless Texas, the Castle Doctrine, a spotless record and 165gr 40cal Hydro Shok personal defense rounds.

Good post, 54 as well. Almost made it move a little even...

[pr1042]

Yeah, I'd tend to agree w/ KB on this one. I was always taught that when you get pulled over, just sit w/ your hands on the wheel, in plain sight, and do nothing until the officer asks. Then, as you're reaching for the docs (where ever they may be) do so VERY slowly and recite what you are doing verbally. I actually had an Austin LEO laugh and say "Did your Dad teach you how to not piss off a Cop?" I responded with a convicted "Yes Sir!" and handed my insurance, license, etc. He laughed but I got a warning. (Apparently there are many 1 way streets in Austin.)
Just my 2¢.

Same here. I turn the car off, roll the windows down, interior light on if its night, and wait with both hands on the wheel.

[Darren M]

Yeah, I'd tend to agree w/ KB on this one. I was always taught that when you get pulled over, just sit w/ your hands on the wheel, in plain sight, and do nothing until the officer asks. Then, as you're reaching for the docs (where ever they may be) do so VERY slowly and recite what you are doing verbally. I actually had an Austin LEO laugh and say "Did your Dad teach you how to not piss off a Cop?" I responded with a convicted "Yes Sir!" and handed my insurance, license, etc. He laughed but I got a warning. (Apparently there are many 1 way streets in Austin.)
Just my 2¢.

[KBScobravert]

Has anyone here read that Jeff Cooper book Principles of Personal Defense? I just ordered it and American Sniper .

Also another question for the LEO's. Y'all talk about people telling you "my insurance card is in glove box, so is my weapon." I always get that stuff ready for the LEO before he ever comes up to the car. My thinking is this lets my hands stay on the steering wheel the whole time so he can see them, and I don't have to make any movements. Which do you prefer?

Great post by the guy on ARFCOM and by Don. I printed the info and had my wife read it too.

After my last run in with the Hurst PD. I am not getting shit out for them (hust pd) in advance. They are just gonna have to sit there and squirm for a while. Do all the right things and those a-holes are still giving you a BS ticket.

[bobs94formula]

Has anyone here read that Jeff Cooper book Principles of Personal Defense? I just ordered it and American Sniper .

Also another question for the LEO's. Y'all talk about people telling you "my insurance card is in glove box, so is my weapon." I always get that stuff ready for the LEO before he ever comes up to the car. My thinking is this lets my hands stay on the steering wheel the whole time so he can see them, and I don't have to make any movements. Which do you prefer?

Great post by the guy on ARFCOM and by Don. I printed the info and had my wife read it too.