cough... atf visit...

[YALE]

Close. It's about giving them permission to fuck you.
Mostly that you don't have to, and that is your right unless you surrender it stupidly.

but apparently everyone on here is scared to do it.
got it?

So you guys seriously just let every cop that asks to search your car too? See how that has gained popularity? It's because of stupid ppl. I don't feel the ppl here are stupid, cause some of you know this.
So does that just make yall cowards against a helpless ATF agent ?
THERE IS NO RIGHT FOR ATF TO SHOW UP. what is so hard to understand?

You're reading a lot into our responses. Are you sure you're mentally fit to own a firearm?

[John -- '02 HAWK]

you know there is a better way than saying get a warrant. Its a as simple as saying my house is dirty so why dont yall wait out here and I'll go grab the items in question and bring them out to you.

I see this this as a lot different than a traffic cop asking do a search

[futant]

So, the extreme scenarios about what might happen if you don't give 100% cooperation are crazy and paranoid, but the extreme scenarios about letting them into your house to go over everything with a fine-tooth comb is totally logical and completely justified. Got it.

Close. It's about giving them permission to fuck you.
Mostly that you don't have to, and that is your right unless you surrender it stupidly.

but apparently everyone on here is scared to do it.
got it?

So you guys seriously just let every cop that asks to search your car too? See how that has gained popularity? It's because of stupid ppl. I don't feel the ppl here are stupid, cause some of you know this.
So does that just make yall cowards against a helpless ATF agent ?
THERE IS NO RIGHT FOR ATF TO SHOW UP. what is so hard to understand?

[Nash B.]

So, the extreme scenarios about what might happen if you don't give 100% cooperation are crazy and paranoid, but the extreme scenarios about letting them into your house to go over everything with a fine-tooth comb is totally logical and completely justified. Got it.

[futant]

Dude, he thinks it's like warding off a vampire to tell a cop they can't come in.

so then what are you doing when they come looking for your six lowers?
spreading buttcheek?
Maybe if youre lucky they'll only kick your dog after you let them in for a nice gangbang of your property.

you guys are so scared fo the ATF it's just hilarious really. Just to exercise the rights other people died for in this great land.
Even the ATF expects some people not to just let them in. Yet you guys conjure up all these WHAT IF's when you tell them to come back with a warrant.
Laughable and pathetic all at the same time.

[futant]

Guess youve never read many PC affidavits. But i have a lawyer 24/7, so I will stand my ground, but it can go anyway and youre an idiot to think other.

You are correct and it's sad what is called PC now a days. There used to be a time when LEO's took their job seriously and had respect for doing it the right way that they did.

It's still better to make them come up with PC, real or not.
Just letting them in is effin stupid.
At least if the PC is bullshit, you have some sort of legal recourse after they ransacked your house.
Well , at least there is the HOPE of recourse. It's sad that law enforcement can't find the real criminals and instead harass normal buyers of rifles.

[YALE]

Guess youve never read many PC affidavits. But i have a lawyer 24/7, so I will stand my ground, but it can go anyway and youre an idiot to think other.

Dude, he thinks it's like warding off a vampire to tell a cop they can't come in.

[David]

Look I know they hand out search warrants like candy now a days, but that definitely isn't the point.
When / IF they really go get a warrant (which is total mindfuck to understand why they would in this situation) , the warrant must atleast be specific.
Plus the judge must review the reasoning behind it and do his normal rubber stamping.

So there is a difference, the ATF officer MUST substantiate why the search warrant needs to be issued other than 'that guy told me i can't come in'.
There is no substantial reason to issue a search WARRANT.
You guys are just scared of these clowns, and have no respect for your own privacy.
Which you are perfectly entitled to , but don't make up bullshit excuses like that the boogyman ATF will be right back with a entry team.

Guess youve never read many PC affidavits. But i have a lawyer 24/7, so I will stand my ground, but it can go anyway and youre an idiot to think other.

[futant]

Look I know they hand out search warrants like candy now a days, but that definitely isn't the point.
When / IF they really go get a warrant (which is total mindfuck to understand why they would in this situation) , the warrant must atleast be specific.
Plus the judge must review the reasoning behind it and do his normal rubber stamping.

So there is a difference, the ATF officer MUST substantiate why the search warrant needs to be issued other than 'that guy told me i can't come in'.
There is no substantial reason to issue a search WARRANT.
You guys are just scared of these clowns, and have no respect for your own privacy.
Which you are perfectly entitled to , but don't make up bullshit excuses like that the boogyman ATF will be right back with a entry team.

[onemeangixxer7502]

As though I haven't given enough examples of why this is SOO bad :

you let ATF officer in. He checks out your totally legit rifle purchases. (believe me i am totally legit, I truely have nothing to hide.)
He sees some guns being worked on in your garage.
In his opinion he contrives something could be used for 'constructive intent'
We all know it's bullshit. It could even be a car part. Doesn't matter because ATF guy doesn't know that. Looks like XXX restricted gun part to him , or God knows what...
DOESNT FUCKING MATTER WHATS REAL OR NOT, now youre in jail.
Now you're out ten grand or more to a lawyer to defend yourself.
Youre out a job because youre in jail. Fast forward about five years and your family may have finally recovered from such an ordeal.

If you think they give a shit about you or your rights, or even you as a human being.....
Every damn day people go to jail because of overzealous assholes in the government 'doing their job' .
Thankfully you helped them charge you!

Don't even think you would get no billed either. There are like 50 billion ways they could make something as ambiguous as 'constructive intent' stick. Go ahead keep lying to yourself, after all your mommy told you police are your friends!
Who would do that to another person ?
Don't worry, mr. ATF agent and every other govt goon sleeps soundly every night thinking they saved the world. After all, you'll 'have your day in court' too right ?
These ppl think that anyone who doesn't cooperate with them is a bad guy. That's the mentality. They just expect you to open the door.
You get them off that merry-go-round and most law enforcement doesn't know their own ASS from the law.
I am unbelievably disappointed in this site, that there are this many of you who truely believe you have nothing to fear from an ATF agent at your door wanting inside. That is un fucking believable. Idiots and lemmings. Youre one or the other if you allow them access to your property. I can't even believe there are people left believing this shit after the trampling our rights have received in just my years.

They are playing you like a PAWN to ASK FOR YOUR PERMISSION (to suspend your rights against unnessary search and seizure.)

so if thats the case like others have said they will get their warrant and fuck you in the ass even harder. If you to piss off some atf guy and have him dedicate his immediate future to buttfucking you that's your prerogative. Just like anything it can go from a simple peak around to a fuck you type deal. I totally agree and get what youre saying though.

[David]

Screwed either way if the conspiracy is there.

Yup. You can fold and show and possibly nothing or something happen or they go get the warrant you request and nothing or something happen. Pick your medicine.

[ceyko]

Or another option is they get a warrant and everything above happens anyways.

Screwed either way if the conspiracy is there.

[David]

Or another option is they get a warrant and everything above happens anyways.

[futant]

As though I haven't given enough examples of why this is SOO bad :

you let ATF officer in. He checks out your totally legit rifle purchases. (believe me i am totally legit, I truely have nothing to hide.)
He sees some guns being worked on in your garage.
In his opinion he contrives something could be used for 'constructive intent'
We all know it's bullshit. It could even be a car part. Doesn't matter because ATF guy doesn't know that. Looks like XXX restricted gun part to him , or God knows what...
DOESNT FUCKING MATTER WHATS REAL OR NOT, now youre in jail.
Now you're out ten grand or more to a lawyer to defend yourself.
Youre out a job because youre in jail. Fast forward about five years and your family may have finally recovered from such an ordeal.

If you think they give a shit about you or your rights, or even you as a human being.....
Every damn day people go to jail because of overzealous assholes in the government 'doing their job' .
Thankfully you helped them charge you!

Don't even think you would get no billed either. There are like 50 billion ways they could make something as ambiguous as 'constructive intent' stick. Go ahead keep lying to yourself, after all your mommy told you police are your friends!
Who would do that to another person ?
Don't worry, mr. ATF agent and every other govt goon sleeps soundly every night thinking they saved the world. After all, you'll 'have your day in court' too right ?
These ppl think that anyone who doesn't cooperate with them is a bad guy. That's the mentality. They just expect you to open the door.
You get them off that merry-go-round and most law enforcement doesn't know their own ASS from the law.
I am unbelievably disappointed in this site, that there are this many of you who truely believe you have nothing to fear from an ATF agent at your door wanting inside. That is un fucking believable. Idiots and lemmings. Youre one or the other if you allow them access to your property. I can't even believe there are people left believing this shit after the trampling our rights have received in just my years.

They are playing you like a PAWN to ASK FOR YOUR PERMISSION (to suspend your rights against unnessary search and seizure.)

[mikec]

You guys be careful poking that bear...