I'll just leave this here for your reading pleasure. Cops over-armed ?

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Feeling lazy today? Run the drone from the office and mail out speeding tickets. Want to see what a person is doing in their home without a warrant? Send the drone.

You have to see all the sides with these things, not just the possible positives. Present company excluded, we've got enough Gestapo as it is, and I'm not keen on equipping them to make it easier for them to be corrupt.

Everything can be abused. Example tazers, such a great tool. but they are often used to quickly in an encounter, used excessively, or flat out used wrong. There is enough misuse that there are some lobbying to remove them from the common patrol members duty belt.

Oh btw looking in a open window is legal, so is looking at your house with FLIR to see if you have a grow operation

[BP]

I've seen the Dallas SWAT guys on an overpass in an amored truck, hanging a Barrett out of the turret. The sad thing is that even with their half a million dollar truck they couldn't do jack against a regular 18 wheeler.

Two state troopers in a Crown Vic with an AR-15 stopped the truck almost immediately without anyone getting hurt, Dallas SWAT chased them for 50+ miles over two counties and even with several million dollars worth of equipment and all the training in the world they didn't even act.

Granted, in this instance the SWAT team was completely out of their element but my point is that when you have all the equipment in the world at your disposal you sometimes forget about the simple and obvious solutions.

[svauto-erotic855]

I've seen the Dallas SWAT guys on an overpass in an amored truck, hanging a Barrett out of the turret. The sad thing is that even with their half a million dollar truck they couldn't do jack against a regular 18 wheeler.

Two state troopers in a Crown Vic with an AR-15 stopped the truck almost immediately without anyone getting hurt, Dallas SWAT chased them for 50+ miles over two counties and even with several million dollars worth of equipment and all the training in the world they didn't even act.

Granted, in this instance the SWAT team was completely out of their element but my point is that when you have all the equipment in the world at your disposal you sometimes forget about the simple and obvious solutions.

I think that DPD SWAT's failure in stopping the 18 wheeler had more to do with none of them having a clue as to what makes one tick. DPS has to inspect them on the side of the road and they know that putting a few holes in the air pressure reservoir for the brake systems will stop the truck with a quickness. It doesn't take a nearly useless armored truck to do that. A little brain power will beat out a tech toy 99 out of 100 times.

[exlude]

This isn't a failure from the local PDs, it's a failure of, yet again, Homeland Security pushing too much money to these guys.

Take it from a gov't worker...when you get pushed money you are encouraged to spend it so when the next round of funding comes around you get an equal if not greater amount. Unspent amounts of money just mean that your budget will be smaller in the future.

So, the federal gov't pushes large bundles of money to these local PDs and when they don't really need anything...they purchase tacticool shit they don't need. There's no incentive to not spend the money.

[Marss]

This isn't a failure from the local PDs, it's a failure of, yet again, Homeland Security pushing too much money to these guys.

Take it from a gov't worker...when you get pushed money you are encouraged to spend it so when the next round of funding comes around you get an equal if not greater amount. Unspent amounts of money just mean that your budget will be smaller in the future.

Bingo. Its a use it or lose it scenerio so they buy toys. Can't blame the LEO's for wanting to be armed as well as or better than the criminals may be. I know I'd want the upper hand in a life or death situation.
After 911 many rural areas were freaked out. My sister was ems in a little town in Kansas. They had training that all emergency people did incase alquaeda took a school hostage. Seems far fetched, but they were worried about it and had the $ in the budget they needed to spend.

Now what really pisses me off is that the US borrows trillions from China only to give, yes GIVE, them billions of $ in grants for economic development and through the EPA for environmental protection. We also borrow money to give to other countries. At least the money in the programs discussed up top is staying on US soil.

[racrguy]

Bingo. Its a use it or lose it scenerio so they buy toys. Can't blame the LEO's for wanting to be armed as well as or better than the criminals may be. I know I'd want the upper hand in a life or death situation.
After 911 many rural areas were freaked out. My sister was ems in a little town in Kansas. They had training that all emergency people did incase alquaeda took a school hostage. Seems far fetched, but they were worried about it and had the $ in the budget they needed to spend.

Now what really pisses me off is that the US borrows trillions from China only to give, yes GIVE, them billions of $ in grants for economic development and through the EPA for environmental protection. We also borrow money to give to other countries. At least the money in the programs discussed up top is staying on US soil.

Aside from Killdozer or the soldier that stole a tank I've never heard of a single perp with any type of armored vehicle.

[Marss]

Aside from Killdozer or the soldier that stole a tank I've never heard of a single perp with any type of armored vehicle.

That would be the "or better" and upper hand portion of my statement that you skipped over. You have to read the whole statement.

I remember the SUV that went tearing through Dallas shooting their Ak's at cops and bystanders though. This isn't the movies and FMJ isn't stopped by a door panel. I can see a need for something armored. I also know about the UT sniper. The cops didn't have the firearms to reach him in the clock tower. It fell to people's hunting rifles to bring him down. History can teach us lessons if we pay attention.

Put your body where your ideals are. Go join a police force and put your life on the line with limited resources because a criminal may not have the equipment or resources available to you. I bet your stance on this wouldn't be so appealing if it was you who may get shot. If someone is going to put their life on the line for public safety, I'm not going to begrudge them equipment that may help them get home to see their family.

[TENGRAM]

This is SOP in the business world.. If given a budget, spend as much as you can regardless of need. It's no wonder we are in the economic mess we're in.

[BP]

I guess the one good thing about the local LEOs being armed to the teeth is that in the event of an armed invasion on our soil they will be the first line of defense, along with armed citizens.

Terrorists have gotten a lot bolder, I pray it never happens but if a group decides to do a Mumbai style attack here the police will need all the armor and assault weapons they can get.

[Broncojohnny]

Put your body where your ideals are. Go join a police force and put your life on the line with limited resources because a criminal may not have the equipment or resources available to you. I bet your stance on this wouldn't be so appealing if it was you who may get shot. If someone is going to put their life on the line for public safety, I'm not going to begrudge them equipment that may help them get home to see their family.

So every cop car should be an M1 Abrams, makes perfect sense!

[mikec]

Aside from Killdozer or the soldier that stole a tank I've never heard of a single perp with any type of armored vehicle.

I drove through Oak Cliff last week and saw four different crack dealers driving around in tanks. One other was picking up a shipment in his Bradley. True story.

[mikec]

...I also know about the UT sniper. The cops didn't have the firearms to reach him in the clock tower. It fell to people's hunting rifles to bring him down. History can teach us lessons if we pay attention...

"As Martinez was firing, McCoy jumped to the right of him and fired two fatal shots of 00-buckshot with his 12-gauge shotgun into the head, neck, and left side of Whitman, who was sitting with his back toward the north wall in the northwest corner area 50 feet away..."


Looks like you need to do a little more "knowing about" stuff before you get caught throwing total bullshit out there. Especially on something so damned easy to check out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

[racrguy]

"As Martinez was firing, McCoy jumped to the right of him and fired two fatal shots of 00-buckshot with his 12-gauge shotgun into the head, neck, and left side of Whitman, who was sitting with his back toward the north wall in the northwest corner area 50 feet away..."


Looks like you need to do a little more "knowing about" stuff before you get caught throwing total bullshit out there. Especially on something so damned easy to check out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

Not only that, but I don't think he knows my arguing style. I will pick apart his posts point by point. In this case I don't have to, it's already been done for me. Thanks Al and Mike. Lol

As far as joining the police force, I'd make a horrible cop. I don't agree with some of the laws cops deal with on a daily basis, so I couldn't bring myself to use them against someone when I don't agree with them in the first place.

[futant]

I think the real issue is that people can't afford many things they need while the police have all the damn budget they don't even need.

when you give departments a budget that is unjustified they'll always buy a bunch of shit they want and don't need.

they saddest part is actually that you and me as taxpayers have to pay for this waste.
This extends into virtually every part of the government. Blaming local PD is pointless. The politicians should be held accountable and get the good ass kicking they deserve.
Focus ppl , FOCUS!

It all extends from the notion that government can and should be involved in EVERYTHING. Either start fucking the politicians or they'll just keep on fucking you with their paid off henchmen.

Sorry you cops out there, but if you get paid to kick down doors ala SWAT teams against ppl that are 99.9% never a threat, youre a tool.
You take money to unjustly use force against others , mostly in the name of the drug war and terrorists. These are BULLSHIT ideas they've forced down your throats. There were NO SWAT teams like 30 years ago, and virtually nothing was different. Prove me wrong..... let's hear it. Why do we need you ? no one needed door kickers on every policed city, or tanks , or even rifles in squad cars back then and nothing is different.
That's a fact. About the only thing I'm for is rifles in squad cars, that's just plain common sense.
Kicking down peoples doors cause they grow pot , is BS and you know it. Just like needing a robot for every package that is reported.
The terrorist have won, and so has every drug gang south of the border. Militarizing the police is just bullshit.
It's a scheme for buying more toys.

Militarized police forces is 100% OPPOSITE of what the founding fathers wanted and you took an oath to uphold that.
The minute you took money from taxpayers and bought military toys on the premise of fear, you where sell outs and your OATH MEANT NOTHING.
The next step for you is easy . You just make up an excuse and use them against people you don't like or someone who orders you to doesn' like them. It's happening every day, all because taxpayers / citizens are putting up with it. Attrition of our rights has way of changing things though. First public opinion changes the respect we have for you.
From there, your life becomes hell. The policitians just play you like pawns against us, and they use your greed as a way of smoothing the road.
Thankfully I fully have more faith in the public servants / police than this post may resemble . Look at all the ILLEGAL activities of police though during katrina. Did any of that militarization really make sense ? NO , yet everyone was 'following orders' while they confiscated private citizens firearms that were leaving the city.
How does that make sense when you took the oath?

[futant]

This article does a decent job of bringing you to how this overzealous budgeting has all been drumed up :

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/our_growing_police_state.html

but i see no one responding .so this looks like , yet again, a waste of time...