Looking for some info...

[cobrajet69]

Visited one of my wife's older relatives yesterday and he showed off a couple of old guns he has stored away.

This particular gun caught my eye and when I asked about it, all he could say was that it belonged to his grandfather (this guy telling me this is 80+ so that would put his grandfather in the early to mid 1800's.

It's a decent piece but he's tried restoring the barrel himself, taking off the patina and leaving the barrel looking kind of bare.

Anyone recognize the writing?
I'm pretty sure it's Deutsch but couldn't find anything on Google.





Edit: Sorry for crappy iPhone pix. But it's a side by side with some pretty ornate etching/scrolling on the metalwork and trigger guard.


David

[krazy kris]

very badass

[Bassics]

It doesn't look like a damascus barrel from the pic. Doubles and even triples have always been really popular in europe. It's not a pinfire is it?

[cobrajet69]

It doesn't look like a damascus barrel from the pic. Doubles and even triples have always been really popular in europe. It's not a pinfire is it?

I believe so.
Does a pinfire use a ramrod? It had one attached.



David

[Marss]

It doesn't look like a damascus barrel from the pic. Doubles and even triples have always been really popular in europe. It's not a pinfire is it?

Patina was removed. If it is mid 1800's I'd put $ on it being laminate (damascus) steel. Its a great wall hanger. It may be Ok with cowboy loads, but not something I'd shoot modern shells with, if at all.

I had a late 1800's Birmingham SXS. It said laminate steel on the barrel, but didn't have the damascus look.

[Bassics]

I believe so.
Does a pinfire use a ramrod? It had one attached.



David

Pinfire uses a pin on the side of the shell as opposed to centerfire. I asked because of the way the ammer mechanism was oriented. Very rare, very collectible.

Damascus barrels are made of laminated strips wrapped kind of like a spring:

http://www.hallowellco.com/damascus_twist_barrels.htm

Hence what Marss said about safety. Looking at your pic I can't tell, but he may be right, the patina is gone and just won't show up in a pic.

[cobrajet69]

Pin-fire uses a pin on the side of the shell as opposed to centerfire. I asked because of the way the ammer mechanism was oriented. Very rare, very collectible.

Damascus barrels are made of laminated strips wrapped kind of like a spring:

http://www.hallowellco.com/damascus_twist_barrels.htm

Hence what Marss said about safety. Looking at your pic I can't tell, but he may be right, the patina is gone and just won't show up in a pic.

Thanks for the info.

I'm fairly certain it is a pinfire because of the angle the firing pin would strike. And, I remember him mentioning a pin fire weapon when showing me another long-gun (also a pin fire).

I'm familiar with Damascus though, and don't think this gun is made from it. Could be wrong but I didn't see any evidence of it.

I offered to ask CJ to look the gun over and offer some suggestions on restoring it. It has some missing plate steel under the barrel and fore of the trigger guard that has been replaced with some dark stained wood (to resemble steel). Also, the ramrod was remade/replaced by a piece of dowel rod, again made to look like the original piece. This guy is a very good wood carver & craftsman and did it himself, but I'm pretty sure those pieces could be replicated with some machining.

The only issue I have about restoring the gun is re-bluing the barrel. I know most collectors would say leave it alone, but since he's already "done the damage" - if the gun were mine, I would strongly consider doing it over properly. Again, the barrel looks to me like it's raw and unprotected.


David

[helosailor]

Very cool, David. Here's some info I was able to find on the maker. It's translated from German, so bear with the grammar. Perhaps this one is one that was made during his apprenticeship, which would make it extraordinarily rare. I say that, because it doesn't look like he actually went into business actually making firearms under his own name.

Hugo Bästlein (* January 22 1868 in Henry , † unknown) was a consumer cooperative, executive director of the Central Association of German consumer associations and CEO of the Hamburg Chamber of consumers


Hugo Bästlein
Hugo Bästlein attended elementary school and then completed in between 1882 and 1885, a commercial apprenticeship in a munitions factory in Suhl. Here from 1887 to 1897 he was CFO of a partial operation. He was cofounder of the consumer association established in 1892 in Henry Selbshilfe and from 1 April 1892 to 30 April's general manager. In 1897 he became mayors of his birthplace. This position he held together with the managing director until 1913. In the Thuringian consumer cooperative auditing association, he was the first July 1900 Auditor Association, 1902 Association board member and director of 1911. He was also a director from 1906 to the consumer cooperative purchasing association Suhl and the purchasing association cabbage until its annexation by the United Society of German shopping Consumvereine (GEG). In 1907 he became board member of the JIT. The official rate of GEG, he belonged to as assessors. In November 1912, the Central Association of German consumer associations and reorganized Bästlein here chosen as one of three managing directors and co-operative societies of the German publishing company ltd. The Trade Union Cooperative Insurance- Volksfürsorge later appointed him to the auditor. With the founding of the fire - and he was self-help Sachversicherungs AG whose board member and later chairman of the board.
With the establishment of the Hamburg Chamber of consumers whose board he was member and later chairman of the board. The Provisional National Economic Council , he had belonged since its foundation until 1933. After the takeover by the Nazis in January 1933 was the direct connection of the consumer cooperative movement from May 1933. Bästlein, who had reached retirement age, went into retirement. Here we lose track.

Also worth noting, "Suhl" is a region in Germany that for several hundred years was known only for the firearms that came out of there. One of the more noteworthy names to have first found fame from that area was J.P. Sauer (think Sig & Sauer).
Maybe C.J. will have one of his OCD information searches on this and be able to find more.

[cobrajet69]

Thanks Scott.

I actually found that info on Google but didn't read long enough to see where he was into munitions.

I'll dig deeper later on and see what I can find.



David