SWAT team raid, Vet killed

[Machx2]

of course he is! Hes a fucking cop lol.

I never said the police were justified. I don't know what happened nor does anyone on this board.

[bcoop]

They were drug raids. What I am getting out of this story is he was probably a drug dealer or smuggler

I am not arguing for either side. Nice to see I am dense as shit though. I came in here giving my opinion on the little facts that were given. Much like everyone else in here gave theirs. Its always different to you guys when someone gives their opinion, and they are a cop. As if we cannot have opinions. So if that makes me dense, then so be it. Honestly I believe that makes you dense since you do not believe I am entitled to my own opinion. I honestly don't care either way. I think the Pima county Sheriff is a moron. All I was saying all along is wait for the evidence to come out. Right now all they are saying they have gotten is guns and body armor from his house. You guys believe everything that the media puts out which is funny.

You very first post in this thread.... Not arguing for either side?

They were drug raids. What I am getting out of this story is he was probably a drug dealer or smuggler

Oh, wait. Maybe your second post in the thread was nuetral, and not arguing for either side...

This one kind of explained it a little better. The guy did have a gun. http://www.kgun9.com/story/14621212/...se-says-family

So now, there is absolutely no problem with shooting a guy 60 fucking times, because he had a gun. Own a gun in America = be murdered in cold blood by the police, then they will not release details in a weak attempt to cover up their colossal fuck up. Got it. Glad that's in the Constitution.


As for it always being different when a cop gives his opinion.... You're correct. It is different. Because EVERY SINGLE TIME you guys automatically side with the cops, blindly. Not one single time did you say "wait for all the evidence to come out. Not once. But you go re-read your posts, and point it out for me. I'll wait.

[Machx2]

You very first post in this thread.... Not arguing for either side?




As for it always being different when a cop gives his opinion.... You're correct. It is different. Because EVERY SINGLE TIME you guys automatically side with the cops, blindly. Not one single time did you say "wait for all the evidence to come out. Not once. But you go re-read your posts, and point it out for me. I'll wait.

Not one time is anyone else stating to wait for the investigation to be completed. How is my first post arguing for a side? I stated what the original poster didn't. Which is why the supposed raid was conducted. Which if you look above my post, ceyko asked " What was the PC for entering that specific home or did I miss it?" Sorry for answering the guys question... I don't take up for what they did. I haven't this whole time. I don't know the whole story and most likely we won't.

[Lason]

Not arguing for either side? Even with it being "limited info", at least we are going off information in a news story where as you are making blind assumptions with absolutley nothing to back it up. Are you so dense that you cant see that?

I didnt even know you were a cop till someone mentioned it in this thread so that has little bearing on the fact that I think your a dumbass.

[pHILSANITY07]

this sounds fishy to me. I can tell you right now if Im at home and I see someone in my yard or whatever at night, damn right im getting my gun. If they come in the house without saying police, im shooting.

[Machx2]

Not arguing for either side? Even with it being "limited info", at least we are going off information in a news story where as you are making blind assumptions with absolutley nothing to back it up. Are you so dense that you cant see that?

I didnt even know you were a cop till someone mentioned it in this thread so that has little bearing on the fact that I think your a dumbass.

I am going off of what the media is saying also. The fact that the police are saying that it was a knock and announce and him having his gun pointed at swat officers after this. I am reading multiple media takes on it. Not just the one posted. I know what it takes to get a search warrant, it takes more than we think something is there. Police make mistakes all the time. Not saying one was made here though because we don't know all the facts.

[Machx2]

this sounds fishy to me. I can tell you right now if Im at home and I see someone in my yard or whatever at night, damn right im getting my gun. If they come in the house without saying police, im shooting.

Was at 9am. So it was during the day, which makes it even more fishy. Also they are saying it was a knock and announce. The wife is the one saying they didn't.

[bcoop]

Was at 9am. So it was during the day, which makes it even more fishy. Also they are saying it was a knock and announce. The wife is the one saying they didn't.

And she's the only one alive to verify. You know damn well the cops would lie through their teeth to deny liability in an instance like this. In a perfect world, cops wouldn't lie, but this death wouldn't have happened, either. It's her word against theirs, and as sad as it is, and as wrong as it COULD be, they will win. They KNOW they were in the wrong. That's why the Sheriff won't release any details. That right there just screams cover up.

[Machx2]

And she's the only one alive to verify. You know damn well the cops would lie through their teeth to deny liability in an instance like this. In a perfect world, cops wouldn't lie, but this death wouldn't have happened, either. It's her word against theirs, and as sad as it is, and as wrong as it COULD be, they will win. They KNOW they were in the wrong. That's why the Sheriff won't release any details. That right there just screams cover up.

I am not saying that some cops wouldn't do that. Out of that bunch there has to at least be one honest one. Maybe thats why its taking so long for the evidence to come out, there may not be any. Who knows. I personally would not lie . F the other officers. I won't lie for any. If I was in the wrong then I will take my punishment. I guess I am just finding it hard to believe how the wife saw the officer through her window and can get a SWAT officer confused with a burglar. That to me does not add up.

[futant]

I guess I am just finding it hard to believe how the wife saw the officer through her window and can get a SWAT officer confused with a burglar. That to me does not add up.

I also read yesterday there has been a string of robberies where the home invaders dressed as POLICE there in Arizona where this happened.
Which is supposedly part of the reason why this guy was raided . They thought he may be part of the home invasion ring.
Supposedly , they also found a part of a uniform (police or otherwise I assume ) at the Vets house .

So yes, it seems possible that she thought they were robbers. I don't give a shit what you scream when you enter my house. You better be heavily armed, ready to die and there better be a lot of you.
If I then feel convinced I cannot kill all of you in a choke point I might put down my gun and consider you may be police or not. Otherwise you better hope you are FAST, DECISIVE and your training worked.
You might consider that harsh, but I consider it my God given right to self defense.
You are the aggressor , I am the defender.

Theives use it to their advantage and you READ ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME. This isn't some bullshit I'm making up for my pleasure. It will never , ever end now.

It's about security , freedom, and not just believing any dipshit who yells IT S THE COPS means you give up. You can buy all that stupid SWAT gear for 50 bucks in a magazine.
I am not doing anything illegal, so I don't care why youre there. You can say youre in the right all you want, I'll be alive, and will put my faith in the jury. Just like how you can say 'well a judge signed that warrant for blah blah bullshit evidence we made up to get it'

Should have just knocked on the door and presented your warrant HUH?
Warrants can be obtained for the stupidest reasons, read some yourself.
IF a cop wants to lay down his life for 'probable cause' that is as stupid as I've read about, he could die on accident. Blame the judge, and your coworkers! They sent your ass in there for no fucking reason at all! Theyre just trigger happy motherfuckers. That's how simple it is.

How is it ever safer for the entry team to bust into a mans house that you have no idea what kind of defenses he has ? THAT IS THE FUCKING STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE. You can sit outside and watch a guy walk out of his house and see he has no rifle or body armor on , big advantage already in 15 minutes of glassing his driveway. Then follow him and arrest him. Now wait for the next guy to leave.
They have to substantiate their jobs by making anyone they can seem dangerous enough for an entry team. That is the only other possibility.

[CJ]

talk about a PR disaster.

[Machx2]

I also read yesterday there has been a string of robberies where the home invaders dressed as POLICE there in Arizona where this happened.
Which is supposedly part of the reason why this guy was raided . They thought he may be part of the home invasion ring.
Supposedly , they also found a part of a uniform (police or otherwise I assume ) at the Vets house .

So yes, it seems possible that she thought they were robbers. I don't give a shit what you scream when you enter my house. You better be heavily armed, ready to die and there better be a lot of you.
If I then feel convinced I cannot kill all of you in a choke point I might put down my gun and consider you may be police or not. Otherwise you better hope you are FAST, DECISIVE and your training worked.
You might consider that harsh, but I consider it my God given right to self defense.
You are the aggressor , I am the defender.

Theives use it to their advantage and you READ ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME. This isn't some bullshit I'm making up for my pleasure. It will never , ever end now.

It's about security , freedom, and not just believing any dipshit who yells IT S THE COPS means you give up. You can buy all that stupid SWAT gear for 50 bucks in a magazine.
I am not doing anything illegal, so I don't care why youre there. You can say youre in the right all you want, I'll be alive, and will put my faith in the jury. Just like how you can say 'well a judge signed that warrant for blah blah bullshit evidence we made up to get it'

Should have just knocked on the door and presented your warrant HUH?
Warrants can be obtained for the stupidest reasons, read some yourself.
IF a cop wants to lay down his life for 'probable cause' that is as stupid as I've read about, he could die on accident. Blame the judge, and your coworkers! They sent your ass in there for no fucking reason at all! Theyre just trigger happy motherfuckers. That's how simple it is.

How is it ever safer for the entry team to bust into a mans house that you have no idea what kind of defenses he has ? THAT IS THE FUCKING STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE. You can sit outside and watch a guy walk out of his house and see he has no rifle or body armor on , big advantage already in 15 minutes of glassing his driveway. Then follow him and arrest him. Now wait for the next guy to leave.
They have to substantiate their jobs by making anyone they can seem dangerous enough for an entry team. That is the only other possibility.

One thing I am not understanding is why didn't the swat team use a flash bang or anything. My guess is they didn't, seeing the outcome. As far as the rest of your post. I do not know. It all depends on what they thought he was a part of. You aren't going to in any circumstance allow someone into their vehicle, because then it becomes a danger to the public if they were to run.

[Mr_Fiux]

Wow this is just a sad story. Hope the sheriffs dept. get sued to bankruptcy.

[Broncojohnny]

I am not saying that some cops wouldn't do that. Out of that bunch there has to at least be one honest one. Maybe thats why its taking so long for the evidence to come out, there may not be any. Who knows. I personally would not lie . F the other officers. I won't lie for any. If I was in the wrong then I will take my punishment. I guess I am just finding it hard to believe how the wife saw the officer through her window and can get a SWAT officer confused with a burglar. That to me does not add up.

My first take was that maybe she was too dumb/scared to know. Most SWAT teams wear a hood and all that black shit, it is possible that she never saw anything that indicated "police" and just freaked the fuck out. You know how women are. She then told her husband "someone is outside with a gun" or some other alarmist comment and he went from asleep into full on defense mode.

[Broncojohnny]

One thing I am not understanding is why didn't the swat team use a flash bang or anything. My guess is they didn't, seeing the outcome. As far as the rest of your post. I do not know. It all depends on what they thought he was a part of. You aren't going to in any circumstance allow someone into their vehicle, because then it becomes a danger to the public if they were to run.

Honestly I don't understand why they didn't just wait for this dude to be at work and then serve the warrant to his wife in a reasonable manner that didn't involve playing wanna be soldier.