Have you or someone you know applied for a fully automatic gun?

[David]

Guns puchased illegally take weapons out of the legal market, making even less available. Less supply makes more demand.

This doesn't make any sense for machine guns. There's already a fixed number of registered machine guns. None can be added, only taken away. Considering the fact that there's only about maybe 5 total instances of where a legal machine gun has been used in a crime.

[Moose242]

Guns puchased illegally take weapons out of the legal market, making even less available. Less supply makes more demand.

I am not sure that you understand how this works. The price of legally owned machine guns is artificially inflated due to legislation preventing the new registration of machine guns for civilians. You would be a fool to sell a legally registered machine gun on the black market.

A gun that should cost $2,000 now runs about $18,000. A criminal would not waste time buying a legal MG at market prices when they could buy an illegal one....

[Chopped54]

I am not sure that you understand how this works. The price of legally owned machine guns is artificially inflated due to legislation preventing the new registration of machine guns for civilians. You would be a fool to sell a legally registered machine gun on the black market.

A gun that should cost $2,000 now runs about $18,000. A criminal would not waste time buying a legal MG at market prices when they could buy an illegal one....

Or 5 mins to modify the sear in a $500 AR

To buy one, find a dealer with one in stock or an individual willing to sell his. The market is odd, you cant just walk into any gun shop and expect to see a display case full of MGs for every ganglion off the street to finger fuck. Find one for sale off of special websites and forums (some dealers specialize in MGs too).

SAW in Mesquite/Sunnyvale actually has quite a few on the wall behind the counter.

[Moose242]

Or 5 mins to modify the sear in a $500 AR



SAW in Mesquite/Sunnyvale actually has quite a few on the wall behind the counter.

I have heard people say the whole "HURR all you need to do is file down/modify the sear" thing, but I assure you that this is not the case.

Also, have never been to SAW but I don't doubt you, it is just very unusual to see MGs at a retail store in any kind of quantity.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Or 5 mins to modify the sear in a $500 AR

You forgot the modification to the lower

[Venix]

If it only took an idiot a few min to convert a SA to FA then I am sure that the laws would have been rendered useless long ago. Every gun guy alive would have a stash of full auto converts just hiding under the house or something.

Hell, who wouldn't want a cool Ruger 10/22 like they used to make the convert kits for?

[Chopped54]

Also, have never been to SAW but I don't doubt you, it is just very unusual to see MGs at a retail store in any kind of quantity.

They have quite a few, and seem to be decent people. Last time I was in there though I got into an arguement about shipping long guns in Texas that had me start doubting them. I told them it was legal for individuals to ship long guns to other individuals intrastate. They told me that no carrier would accept it. I told them I have done it on a few occasions and they bascially told me I was either a liar or now a felon.....

[LANTIRN]

I lived in Phoenix for a year, and in Scottsdale near the Ducatti and BMW dealership there was a NFA gun shop; 90% of their stuff was either full auto or silencers. And most of what wasn't full auto or a silencer, was semi autos with threaded barrels for the silencers. VERY cool gun shop to visit, and of course the guys were really knowlegeable about the laws. My buddy, who was not a gun guy, was astounded at the $25,000 price tags on some of the larger full autos.

[Moose242]

If it only took an idiot a few min to convert a SA to FA then I am sure that the laws would have been rendered useless long ago. Every gun guy alive would have a stash of full auto converts just hiding under the house or something.

Hell, who wouldn't want a cool Ruger 10/22 like they used to make the convert kits for?

Indeed. The only guns that are easy to illegally convert are open bolt guns or HK style roller locked guns.


On an AR15 you either need to make a lightning link (you need a cnc machine) or-
Mill out the lower's semi auto shelf
Use a drill press to make a new hole for the sear
Get an m16 hammer, selector, sear, disconnector
M16 bolt carrier


You can see how this lower has been milled out-

[Chopped54]

If it only took an idiot a few min to convert a SA to FA then I am sure that the laws would have been rendered useless long ago. Every gun guy alive would have a stash of full auto converts just hiding under the house or something.

That makes no sense at all....


I am not going to search for the links it on my work computer, but an easy search will show there are ways to convert an AR to full auto. It takes a special lower for a select fire auto sear to be installed, but it can be converted to full auto only by cutting/removing semi-auto FCG parts.

[GSXRK5]

Or 5 mins to modify the sear in a $500 AR

I've read this and "heard" this many times. Yet i've never ever been able to find any information on it. Although i know it is illegal i've never actually found any on it for information purposes. But then again it may be that i suck at searching.

Indeed. The only guns that are easy to illegally convert are open bolt guns or HK style roller locked guns.


On an AR15 you either need to make a lightning link (you need a cnc machine) or-
Mill out the lower's semi auto shelf
Use a drill press to make a new hole for the sear
Get an m16 hammer, selector, sear, disconnector
M16 bolt carrier


You can see how this lower has been milled out-

This is the most i've ever seen or read about how to do it. I'm very interested in the process although i've never do one for the simple fact that I wouldn't wanna ruin my life. But it would be cool to know that is really could be done. Instead of the I know someone, who knows someone, who lost contact with someone who knew someone etc etc......

[Chopped54]

I've read this and "heard" this many times. Yet i've never ever been able to find any information on it. Although i know it is illegal i've never actually found any on it for information purposes. But then again it may be that i suck at searching.

I have never done it, never seen anyone do it, but have read about it and while building quite a few ARs I can see where it could work in making it a full time auto rifle.

This is the most i've ever seen or read about how to do it. I'm very interested in the process although i've never do one for the simple fact that I wouldn't wanna ruin my life. But it would be cool to know that is really could be done. Instead of the I know someone, who knows someone, who lost contact with someone who knew someone etc etc......

This shows how to install a transferrable sear into an AR lower. A full auto fire control group has a different trigger, hammer, disconnector, and an auto sear in the rear. The pic he posted shows what has to be machined away to install these parts.

[Moose242]

I am not going to search for the links it on my work computer, but an easy search will show there are ways to convert an AR to full auto. It takes a special lower for a select fire auto sear to be installed, but it can be converted to full auto only by cutting/removing semi-auto FCG parts.

I assure you that a simple modification of the sear or the disconnector will not work. Even if you remove the disconnector or file the sear, you will get what is called hammer follow, where the hammer rides the bolt carrier all the way to point of locking instead of being tripped after the bolt locks allowing a sudden pressure to the firing pin to be applied. The movement of the hammer must be retarded in respect to the movement of the bolt carrier. A lightning link is the solution to this problem, tripping the disconnector after the bolt locks (or quickly enough before that it has a chance to do so before the hammer hits the firing pin). Modern bolt carriers prevent the installation of a lightning link, as only the Colt SP1 carriers will work in conjunction with one.

In conclusion, making an illegal full auto 223 ar15 is hard... but making one in 9mm is relatively simple.

Since the 9mm guns work via blowback and do not require any kind of locking you can just use a shim to hold the firing pin forward (it then becomes an open bolt gun). Instead of using the trigger to fire the gun at this point, your bolt catch is now your trigger.

Now go buy a 9mm AR and enjoy some jail time.

[LANTIRN]

Interesting info. As cool as I think it would be to own a full auto tommy gun, I just can't fathom spending that much money on one, and then the absurd amount of money it costs to shoot one.

[BP]

What about an AK variant? I've never done it but just by looking at the mechanism I can see where about 15 seconds on a bench grinder should make one full auto.

Also what's current market value for a full auto and supressed Mac-11? I found someone today that supposedly bought a case of them back in the early 80s for next to nothing.