Ammo too long?

[slow06]

I'm curious if this could be a problem?

The story is I bought some Prvi Partizan 308 winchester from AIM Surplus. I haven't fired any, but cycling them through my Remington 700 it seems like the bolt is harder to close than with the Winchester or Hornady I ususally shoot. I tested them side by side, one after another, 2 of the 8 boxes I ordered. No mistaking it, harder to close.

This leads me to believe the ammo is longer. (Im not a reloader, but more specificlly that the bullet is not seated far enough into the casing maybe???)The question is, is this really a problem? The bolt does close, everything cycles fine, it's just a little more stiff. This will be shot in a bolt action only, no semi-auto. I don't have calipers to measure or I would.

Any input is appreciated.

[ThreeFingerPete]

The story is I bought some Prvi Partizan 308 winchester from AIM Surplus. I haven't fired any, but cycling them through my Remington 700 it seems like the bolt is harder to close than with the Winchester or Hornady I ususally shoot. I tested them side by side, one after another, 2 of the 8 boxes I ordered. No mistaking it, harder to close.

This leads me to believe the ammo is longer.

What do you mean it "leads you to believe". Take a prvi round and a WWB and sit them side by side on a flat surface. Whichever one sticks up farther is longer. All of the speculation in the world isn't going to do you a bit of good if you can't give us some actual data.

[slow06]

What do you mean it "leads you to believe". Take a prvi round and a WWB and sit them side by side on a flat surface. Whichever one sticks up farther is longer. All of the speculation in the world isn't going to do you a bit of good if you can't give us some actual data.

Just eying it, compared to a Winchester soft point it looks to be about the same size in all aspects. I guess a better question is what else could cause it to push against the bolt like that?

I'm asking for educated guesses from people who are more familiar with guns/ammo than I am. I don't expect specific advice only having given general info, I'm just looking for ideas or issues to look for.

If I remember correctly I have seen bullet length vary between a hollow point vs. a soft point so I don't think overall length would be a problem, but I can't think of what else would cause "pressure" against the bolt unless the bullet isn't seated correctly. Just by eying that it looks about right too.

[CJ]

rifle cartridges head space against the shoulder, not the overall length, so overlal length doesn't mean anything. It's difficult to eyeball a rifle round and see which is headspaced more, because you can have two at identical OAL, and one of them will jam, just 10 thousands will do it. Isn't that prvi stuff lacquer coated steel? It may just be the coating.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Even if the headspace was incorrect, the resistance would only be right at the last bit of bolt travel.

Is the bolt hard to close as it starts to seat the round, as it strips it from the magazine or just at the point when you lock it down?

[CJ]

Even if the headspace was incorrect, the resistance would only be right at the last bit of bolt travel.

Is the bolt hard to close as it starts to seat the round, as it strips it from the magazine or just at the point when you lock it down?

It seems like that is what he is describing - his bolt is hard to close. Rifle cartridges are conical, so they shouldn't any any resistance until the bolt is near lock up, that's when you have the first concentric contact.

[slow06]

rifle cartridges head space against the shoulder, not the overall length, so overlal length doesn't mean anything. It's difficult to eyeball a rifle round and see which is headspaced more, because you can have two at identical OAL, and one of them will jam, just 10 thousands will do it. Isn't that prvi stuff lacquer coated steel? It may just be the coating.

This stuff is brass cased, but it may have a coating.

When you say shoulder do you mean the widest part of the step-down area on the casing? So in all likleyhood the case would be the problem, that it is just a bit to long?

From your experience, would that cause a problem? (I know there are a lot of variables here so trust me, im not going to come back and blame you or Pete if my gun goes kaboom, i take full responsibility for whatever decision I make.)

This is it -

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AP308SP150&name=Prvi+Partizan+PPU+.308+150grn+SP+20rd+box&groupid=26

Even if the headspace was incorrect, the resistance would only be right at the last bit of bolt travel.

Is the bolt hard to close as it starts to seat the round, as it strips it from the magazine or just at the point when you lock it down?

It's not an issue until I lock it down, where you start the clockwise motion. I imagine that if it is getting to that point then I am probably ok to shoot it, but I don't want to blow my gun up because I didn't ask.

It seems like that is what he is describing - his bolt is hard to close. Rifle cartridges are conical, so they shouldn't any any resistance until the bolt is near lock up, that's when you have the first concentric contact.

Correct. It is that last milimeter or so of forward motion (not much there), and then moreso when I am rotating the bolt clockwise.

[bronco71]

are there any marks on the bullet or case after you cycle the round? Bullets are all different shapes, even in the same weight, and some are wider farther toward the tip than others. These can be on cartridges the same OAL but will hit the lands on some rifles because of the combination of a shorter chamber and the bullet being wider toward the tip. Usually there will be a mark on the bullet if this is the case.....

[slow06]

are there any marks on the bullet or case after you cycle the round? Bullets are all different shapes, even in the same weight, and some are wider farther toward the tip than others. These can be on cartridges the same OAL but will hit the lands on some rifles because of the combination of a shorter chamber and the bullet being wider toward the tip. Usually there will be a mark on the bullet if this is the case.....

I looked for marks on the bullet and the case thinking i would see a gouge or intentation somewhere, didn't see anything. I am betting there is some sort of mark somewhere, but this ammo isn't all that clean so it is hard to tell.

I am going to go over now to try to find a nice clean round and test it again, I really think I should be able to see something.

[ThreeFingerPete]

I looked for marks on the bullet and the case thinking i would see a gouge or intentation somewhere, didn't see anything. I am betting there is some sort of mark somewhere, but this ammo isn't all that clean so it is hard to tell.

I am going to go over now to try to find a nice clean round and test it again, I really think I should be able to see something.

chamber the round 10 times, any markings should become more apparent.

[slow06]

After running two of them through about 15-20 times each im not seeing any abnormal looking marks.

I have fulfilled my curiosity for now. Since nobody knows of any obvious issues im just going to try them out and see how they do.

Thanks for your help guys.

[CJ]

I think you're fine. You'd have to bring me a round so I could correctly measure it for spec.

[slow06]

I think you're fine. You'd have to bring me a round so I could correctly measure it for spec.

You are too far away...

I am actually going to save about 10 so I can measure them later. I've been reading up on reloading and following the threads here, that is what had me questioning this in the first place. When I get to the point where I shoot more regularly and have enough money to make the initial investment I want to reload .308, .223, and probably a couple of calibers I don't own yet.

Edit: Dangit, I must have removed it but i live in Arlington too.

[CJ]

You are too far away...

I am actually going to save about 10 so I can measure them later. I've been reading up on reloading and following the threads here, that is what had me questioning this in the first place. When I get to the point where I shoot more regularly and have enough money to make the initial investment I want to reload .308, .223, and probably a couple of calibers I don't own yet.

Edit: Dangit, I must have removed it but i live in Arlington too.

? I'm also in arlington. You should reload.

[slow06]

? I'm also in arlington. You should reload.

That was a failed joke, and a dumb one at that.

I will start reloading at some point but Ive only been to the range 3 times in the past year. After getting married it seems like we have crap to do every weekend.

At the current rate it wouldn't make sense, but ill get back there one day. I had so much more free time when I was single.