lets talk budget sights/optics

[futant]

Curious, do the cops generally just tell ya to stop or does it get messy with tickets and weapon confiscation?

Sheriff was totally cool. gave us no grief, asked little questions, didn't even look around our campsite any. basically we just agreed to stop shooting and gave him a ride back off the property.
After all , we were out of city limits and shooting inside of the property lines in a 'reasonibly safe' direction. I don't think he could do anything, but I certainly wouldn't press my luck. Game wardens can be a little more involved for obvious reasons. Still my exeriences with them have been overall very good. Especially if you and your friends have your licenses and crap in order. Game wardens have a lot of right to do literally anything they want, don't even think about fucking with them it won't work.

To be totally honest the complaints the neighbors houses were saying didn't sound that believable. but hey ricochets are a real problem.... I wasn't there so I don't know if there was any truth to it. The sheriff did claim 'bullets were flying over his squad car'.
considering though we are shooting downhill, and there are two tree lines with over 50% coverage and maybe 400-500 hundreds of yards EASY, I had my doubts.
maybe they built more houses there now ? I dunno.
Seems like the easiest thing to do is build a dirt pile and shoot at it. Then if they complain, you've done virtually everything you can do. the neighbor that walked over with him (not the complaint) had a backstop, my friend said it was literally only like 8'x6'x4' , so wouldn't be a huge chore. Just annoying cause we only go out there like once or twice a year to shoot. not by choice, I just don't think my mom would want us doing more. Even though we literally pick up brass... everything. Definitely won't be mentioning the sheriff! she would freak out.
I think the neighbors just got scared cause we are shooting a lot.

[ceyko]

I think the neighbors just got scared cause we are shooting a lot.

Yeah, it's a tricky thing I'd imagine. Big difference between people you know well doing it and people you consider strangers doing it. Glad it all worked out though.

[ThreeFingerPete]

I know what your point is but I'n not a crappy shot bro. I can keep a nice tight pattern with my old ass winchester pump .22 (62a) at 50 yards. Let me rephrase my question.. What is a nice set of iron sights that an average shooter could be accurate with around 50 yards.. lets say a 3-5 inch pattern. I just enjoy having fun at the range.. If you wanna meet up and shoot it you will see what im talking about..

I'm assuming that your winchester pump has normal rifle sights on it, and the ghost ring/aperture setup on AR15/M16/wtfever takes some definite getting used to. With more practice, you should be able to easily keep your rounds in a 5" group @ 50y with whichever open sights you currently have on the gun.

There is always the possibility of an issue with the barrel, tumbling bullets, crappy ammunition, etc. The likelihood is more that it's being unfamiliar with ghost ring sights.

I'm always down to go shoot, and I can bring a few toys with some different optics setups on them.

[bronco71]

Sheriff was totally cool. gave us no grief, asked little questions, didn't even look around our campsite any. basically we just agreed to stop shooting and gave him a ride back off the property.
After all , we were out of city limits and shooting inside of the property lines in a 'reasonibly safe' direction. I don't think he could do anything, but I certainly wouldn't press my luck. Game wardens can be a little more involved for obvious reasons. Still my exeriences with them have been overall very good. Especially if you and your friends have your licenses and crap in order. Game wardens have a lot of right to do literally anything they want, don't even think about fucking with them it won't work.

To be totally honest the complaints the neighbors houses were saying didn't sound that believable. but hey ricochets are a real problem.... I wasn't there so I don't know if there was any truth to it. The sheriff did claim 'bullets were flying over his squad car'.
considering though we are shooting downhill, and there are two tree lines with over 50% coverage and maybe 400-500 hundreds of yards EASY, I had my doubts.
maybe they built more houses there now ? I dunno.
Seems like the easiest thing to do is build a dirt pile and shoot at it. Then if they complain, you've done virtually everything you can do. the neighbor that walked over with him (not the complaint) had a backstop, my friend said it was literally only like 8'x6'x4' , so wouldn't be a huge chore. Just annoying cause we only go out there like once or twice a year to shoot. not by choice, I just don't think my mom would want us doing more. Even though we literally pick up brass... everything. Definitely won't be mentioning the sheriff! she would freak out.
I think the neighbors just got scared cause we are shooting a lot.

prolly don't want to open up with a slide fire stock, LOL

[ThreeFingerPete]

prolly don't want to open up with a slide fire stock, LOL

That's a fact!

[Stephen]

I'm assuming that your winchester pump has normal rifle sights on it, and the ghost ring/aperture setup on AR15/M16/wtfever takes some definite getting used to. With more practice, you should be able to easily keep your rounds in a 5" group @ 50y with whichever open sights you currently have on the gun.

There is always the possibility of an issue with the barrel, tumbling bullets, crappy ammunition, etc. The likelihood is more that it's being unfamiliar with ghost ring sights.

I'm always down to go shoot, and I can bring a few toys with some different optics setups on them.

I could definitely use a little education on the weapon... im on on tues and wed if you ever wanna go pop off some rounds

[Stephen]

Ok does anyone suggest a front rear combo for a flip up sight? would like to keep it around $100 or less for front and rear and hit a cantelope at 100 meters..

my upper is a DSA ZM4


Is this even possible?

[CJ]

finally got around to taking the ar out to the range and i loved the way it shot but i wasnt very accurate with the A3 carry handle.. I would like to add a red dot or something of that nature to it that is pretty simple to dial in. I would like to be very accurate at 50 yards and be able to hit something the size of a basketball at 100 yards.. anyone reccommend something for 150 or less thats not "too" bulky that i could mount that would fit my needs or is it out of the question for 150?

Just looking for opinions since most of you guys have way more experience than i do at shooting.. or if you have something you wanna sell let me know too

I hate to just pop in here 23 posts into the thread, but you should be able to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards with iron sights. Hitting a cantaloupe at 100 yards shouldn't even be a concern. Hitting a cantaloupe at 200 yards should be very easy. A run of the mill 16" AR-15 will group decent at 400 yards if you can shoot it. You might want to just try a little more trigger time, and maybe take a few tips and learn it shoot it a little better. At that point I feel like you will change your thoughts. I'm not saying that it isn't some iron sight issue, it certainly could be. I highly doubt that though. If you're free some weekend you're more than welcome to come to my range and we can look at your rifle with your current A3 sights and see if we can iron out the problems. I should be able to tell you if you have a problem with 3 squeezes. If there is an issue we will fix it.

The reason I've focused on this is primarily because the accuracy difference between an EOTech, Aimpoint, and iron sights is nothing. None of them carry a magnification, they only present you with a point of aim. One of the three is a little more difficult (or arguable the only one) to master, however it has advantages over the other two. EOTech's and Aimpoints are quicker for close quarters as they do not require as much focus and obstruction to peripheral view.

Originally when I got into rifles I did not understand the draw of iron sights. Honestly, I figured it was just a mutual understanding between old school, and rifles - a more nostalgic/romantic relationship with your gun. But, after spending quite a time getting iron sights down, I finally got it. Firstly, there is nothing more satisfying than hitting a very distant target with nothing more than iron sights. However, I believe iron sights are superior in reliability and repeatability. Probably the most rewarding experience I have is sitting down next to a guy which a $2,500 nightforce remington 700, and out shooting him with an issue M16 with iron sights and surplus ammo.

Truth be told, if the world really did go to shit, and I had a gun to choose, it would be that old vietnam M16A1 with iron sights. It simply is not going to fail or break, period. And honestly it's probably the most accurate of my rifles only second to my long range AR with the scope (which weighs a shit ton).

If you are free, I encourage you to come out some time with that gun and take a day to figure it out, and see if optics is really your best solution. You might find out it isn't.

[Stephen]

I hate to just pop in here 23 posts into the thread, but you should be able to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards with iron sights. Hitting a cantaloupe at 100 yards shouldn't even be a concern. Hitting a cantaloupe at 200 yards should be very easy. A run of the mill 16" AR-15 will group decent at 400 yards if you can shoot it. You might want to just try a little more trigger time, and maybe take a few tips and learn it shoot it a little better. At that point I feel like you will change your thoughts. I'm not saying that it isn't some iron sight issue, it certainly could be. I highly doubt that though. If you're free some weekend you're more than welcome to come to my range and we can look at your rifle with your current A3 sights and see if we can iron out the problems. I should be able to tell you if you have a problem with 3 squeezes. If there is an issue we will fix it.

The reason I've focused on this is primarily because the accuracy difference between an EOTech, Aimpoint, and iron sights is nothing. None of them carry a magnification, they only present you with a point of aim. One of the three is a little more difficult (or arguable the only one) to master, however it has advantages over the other two. EOTech's and Aimpoints are quicker for close quarters as they do not require as much focus and obstruction to peripheral view.

Originally when I got into rifles I did not understand the draw of iron sights. Honestly, I figured it was just a mutual understanding between old school, and rifles - a more nostalgic/romantic relationship with your gun. But, after spending quite a time getting iron sights down, I finally got it. Firstly, there is nothing more satisfying than hitting a very distant target with nothing more than iron sights. However, I believe iron sights are superior in reliability and repeatability. Probably the most rewarding experience I have is sitting down next to a guy which a $2,500 nightforce remington 700, and out shooting him with an issue M16 with iron sights and surplus ammo.

Truth be told, if the world really did go to shit, and I had a gun to choose, it would be that old vietnam M16A1 with iron sights. It simply is not going to fail or break, period. And honestly it's probably the most accurate of my rifles only second to my long range AR with the scope (which weighs a shit ton).

If you are free, I encourage you to come out some time with that gun and take a day to figure it out, and see if optics is really your best solution. You might find out it isn't.

It has the stock zm4 pin up front and a 29 dollar carry handle from amazon.. the sights suck and there is lots of room for error between the hole and the pin.. enough to actually move the gun around.. when my son isnt sitting near the gun ill pull it out and take a pic of the front and rear sights.. Im more accurate with my 60 year old .22 with a bent front sight

[CJ]

It has the stock zm4 pin up front and a 29 dollar carry handle from amazon.. the sights suck and there is lots of room for error between the hole and the pin.. enough to actually move the gun around.. when my son isnt sitting near the gun ill pull it out and take a pic of the front and rear sights.. Im more accurate with my 60 year old .22 with a bent front sight

I have that same gun and carry handle on one of the A3's in my locker and it shoots fine to me. Are you on the close or distant setting on the rear sight? The ZM4 should have a standard GI gas block/FSB with standard front sight post.

[Stephen]

I have that same gun and carry handle on one of the A3's in my locker and it shoots fine to me. Are you on the close or distant setting on the rear sight? The ZM4 should have a standard GI gas block/FSB with standard front sight post.

small ring.. I have no prob hitting the target at 50 yards but my pattern sucks.. would think i would've tightened up after 200 rounds.. maybe i have it dialed in wrong.. anyone with some expreience wanna take it out and shoot it? would love to meet up but my schedule sucks.. only off on tuesdays and wed's before 2pm

[CJ]

small ring.. I have no prob hitting the target at 50 yards but my pattern sucks.. would think i would've tightened up after 200 rounds.. maybe i have it dialed in wrong.. anyone with some expreience wanna take it out and shoot it? would love to meet up but my schedule sucks.. only off on tuesdays and wed's before 2pm

The small ring carries additional height adjustment for 400+ yards, usually. The larger aperture is for close range like 100rds. You mentioned something was loose, what exactly is loose?

[Stephen]

The small ring carries additional height adjustment for 400+ yards, usually. The larger aperture is for close range like 100rds. You mentioned something was loose, what exactly is loose?

loose pattern... i figured i would have tightened up my pattern lol

[KBScobravert]

I hate to just pop in here 23 posts into the thread, but you should be able to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards with iron sights. Hitting a cantaloupe at 100 yards shouldn't even be a concern. Hitting a cantaloupe at 200 yards should be very easy. A run of the mill 16" AR-15 will group decent at 400 yards if you can shoot it. You might want to just try a little more trigger time, and maybe take a few tips and learn it shoot it a little better. At that point I feel like you will change your thoughts. I'm not saying that it isn't some iron sight issue, it certainly could be. I highly doubt that though. If you're free some weekend you're more than welcome to come to my range and we can look at your rifle with your current A3 sights and see if we can iron out the problems. I should be able to tell you if you have a problem with 3 squeezes. If there is an issue we will fix it.

The reason I've focused on this is primarily because the accuracy difference between an EOTech, Aimpoint, and iron sights is nothing. None of them carry a magnification, they only present you with a point of aim. One of the three is a little more difficult (or arguable the only one) to master, however it has advantages over the other two. EOTech's and Aimpoints are quicker for close quarters as they do not require as much focus and obstruction to peripheral view.

Originally when I got into rifles I did not understand the draw of iron sights. Honestly, I figured it was just a mutual understanding between old school, and rifles - a more nostalgic/romantic relationship with your gun. But, after spending quite a time getting iron sights down, I finally got it. Firstly, there is nothing more satisfying than hitting a very distant target with nothing more than iron sights. However, I believe iron sights are superior in reliability and repeatability. Probably the most rewarding experience I have is sitting down next to a guy which a $2,500 nightforce remington 700, and out shooting him with an issue M16 with iron sights and surplus ammo.

Truth be told, if the world really did go to shit, and I had a gun to choose, it would be that old vietnam M16A1 with iron sights. It simply is not going to fail or break, period. And honestly it's probably the most accurate of my rifles only second to my long range AR with the scope (which weighs a shit ton).

If you are free, I encourage you to come out some time with that gun and take a day to figure it out, and see if optics is really your best solution. You might find out it isn't.

CJ paint the gong on the 200 and let them rip. Iron sights on the gong is a perfect way for a person to get immediate feedback and satisfaction of proper fundamentals.

[CJ]

CJ paint the gong on the 200 and let them rip. Iron sights on the gong is a perfect way for a person to get immediate feedback and satisfaction of proper fundamentals.

Yep that's the idea!