so I bought a UPS and it died

[FunFordCobra]

I would hope you realize this is at load, as mine is most times when its on. Sure, its fine when I'm not using any 3d application and my gpus arent working.

[fordracing19]

You need yo go with some car batteries, charger and a large inverter then. Thats how we set the frac vans up.

[westom]

I would hope you realize this is at load, as mine is most times when its on. Sure, its fine when I'm not using any 3d application and my gpus arent working.

First, too many conclusions are based only in speculation. No numbers are actually known. Most computers never draw anywhere near that power. After all, a 700 watt computer would be so hot as to also toast bread. But most computer assemblers do not know how to select a supply. So we tell them to buy a 700 watt supply for their less than 350 watt computer.

To know what you really need means spending $20 on a Kil-A-Watt or other measuring device. Since only those numbers will say what you have - without speculation.

Second, a UPS must take at least 24 hours to charge its batteries. These things are made so cheaply that only a tiniest charger does battery charging. Also a UPS battery is only known good for three years.

That quick degradation is why we recommend a 500 watt supply for a 350 watt computer - so that it can provide temporary, 'dirty', and sufficient power even at three years.

Third, read specification numbers for that UPS. It claims to absorb how many joules? Hundreds or a thousand joules is near zero protection. Just enough above zero so they can tell naive consumers it is a surge protector. What will the UPS do when a destructive surge - maybe hundreds of thousands of joules - appears? Nothing. It does not claim to protect from surges that actually do damage. Protection already inside all appliances makes a hundreds joules surge irrelevant.

Never pay attention to any recommendation devoid of perspective - no numbers. If that UPS does protection, then a specification number defines it.

So, what problem is to be solved? Temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout to save unsaved data? Or surge protection to protect hardware? If that computer needs protection, then so does every other appliance in the house including dishwasher, dimmer switches, and most important during a surge - smoke detectors. Surge protection is found in something completely different for tens of times less money.

[FunFordCobra]

From what I've researched 900w UPS is fine for my needs to just run my monitor and pc, even at full load. I TDP for both 980s and cpu are right under 700w tdp total. I don't care about anything else getting power surges. From what I've researched I need a pure sine wave for my particular 1200w psu (ax1200) while these two are simulated sine wave.

900w shouldn't matter. That's just the amount of wattage you are getting at power loss. 900w just means I'll have a much shorter than advertized time to shut down if I'm actually pulling 1200w, which I'm not.

If I was putting it on a 500va 300w UPS there would be problems down the road but from what everyone has told me on overclock.net a 1500va 900w pure sine wave is what I need without having to buy a tower UPS.

Anyway, I'll find out soon enough.

[westom]

From what I've researched 900w UPS is fine for my needs to just run my monitor and pc, even at full load. I TDP for both 980s and cpu are right under 700w tdp total. I don't care about anything else getting power surges. From what I've researched I need a pure sine wave for my particular 1200w psu (ax1200) while these two are simulated sine wave.

Most only recite wild speculation reinforced by subjective advertising. Most can be eliminated immediately - their claim comes without numbers. That means education only from advertising - not from how electricity works - and not from specification numbers.

If your CPU was anywhere near 700 watts, then you are toasting bread with it. Again, a majority will say it consumes 700 watts for reasons cited earlier. Then help lines are not clogged teaching how electricity works.

Does not matter what anyone says. Only relevant number is one measured by you - ie with a Kill-A-Watt. Considering how much you have over spent, that Kill-A-Watt is near zero money - that actually says something useful.

Pure sine wave is also hooey. All computers are so robust that dirtiest power (from a UPS in battery backup mode) is perfectly fine. For example, output of this 120 volt sine wave UPS is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. They did not lie. Square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves.

Only number that matters is %THD or something equivalent. Does your UPS provide that number? If they did, then the fewer who actually know this stuff could show you how 'dirty' that UPS output really is.

Another example of a sine wave output is demonstrated by an AC utility. Leftmost waveform is a sine wave from AC mains. Right side waveforms are the sine wave outputs when that same UPS is in battery backup mode. Even that is perfectly ideal due to what must already be inside every PSU:

http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-03.asp

Those waveform charts provide actual numbers - not subjective claims. That is also a pure sine wave UPS.

UPS has one functions - temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does not protect hardware. Even the sine wave myth is hooey - contradicted by numbers. Your computer must be so robust that 'dirtier' power even from a UPS does not cause problems. Some PSUs, especially with higher wattage, can be missing those required functions.

UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power. Other anomalies are solved by other devices. In every case, a recommendation cites specification numbers that says it really does that. Research always means specification numbers - not hearsay from some computer assembler who typically does not even know how electricity works. And does not even know about relevant numbers such as %THD.

Did your research discuss %THD? Then who was making those recommendations?

[LS1Goat]

UPS has one functions - temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does not protect hardware.

Incorrect.

The function of a UPS is two fold. And protecting "hardware" is a pivotal component of the design itself.

1. Provide constant output power with low harmonics to maintain loads in the absence of commercial power.

2. Reduce the risks to hardware devices from voltage fluctuations and sudden power loss. People are more familiar with voltage spikes, but the one the most common problem is brownouts. More so in fact, than random spikes.

This, especially during hot summer months when the grid is taxed. Most people are generally unaware of brownouts, but the electronics inside your (e.g., PC, Printer, AVR Pre/Pro, Amp, DVD player etc.) are at risk of damage from repeated events. Low voltage environments are detrimental to most electronic equipment. Just the other day I heard my string of UPS' beep and go to battery mode with no loss of commercial power. Kil-A-Watt was showing 116 volts at the nearest outlet. They bypass at 117volts / 123volts With repeated brownout events, the process of attrition can an will damage equipment. UPS protects your equipment from exposure and mitigates that event. This is just one of the principle reasons why people buy UPS' for home theater gear, PCs, infrastructure support,etc.

Your comments about "dirty" power is erroneous at best. The purity of the waveform and associated harmonics is dictated by the quality of the inverter, bypass logic, and battery. A quality UPS can produce clean regulated output power with little artifacts at a nominal load. The "dirty" power you speak of is coming from the wall socket, not the output side of the UPS.

[westom]

^Absolutely incorrect.
...
1. Provide constant output power with low harmonics to maintain loads in the absence of commercial power.

2. Reduce the risks to hardware devices from voltage fluctuations and sudden power loss. People are more familiar with voltage spikes, but the one the most common problem is brownouts. More so in fact, than random spikes.

Those popular myths are not supported by any specification number. It even contradicts international design standards that existed long before an IBM PC existed.

First, anyone can see waveform in : http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-b...ech-tip-03.asp Power from a UPS in battery backup mode has most harmonics. Please do not ignore what professionals say - even with pictures of a UPS output.

Second, an incandescent bulb can dim to 50% intensity. Even a brownout that much is ideal power to all electronics. That reality is not found where hearsay is promoted as fact. Rather then cite more design standards, let's view what Tom MacIntyre (another engineer) posted in "Motheboard Problem? Post Problem?":

We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and under-voltage situations. ...
Switching supplies ... can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.

Die as in turn off; not die as in damage. Because all electronics are required simpley power off without damage when voltage gets too low.

One international design standard was so blunt about this as to even describe all low voltages with this expression in all capital letters: No Damage Regions.

Low voltage is problematic to motorized appliances. So many naive consumers assume same for electronics. Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. If voltage goes lower, then electronics power off - without damage.

Third, so what is the UPS doing? Providing temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved.

Fourth. if that UPS does protection from voltage spikes and other power variations, then posted are spec numbers that make that claim. No numbers posted for one simple reason. No such numbers exist. No UPS claims such protection. In fact, its near zero joules is just enough to get naive consumers (who routinely ignore specification) to make unsubstantiated claims that LS1Goat has made.

If a UPS claims such protection, then he can say why with spec numbers or other electrical concepts. He never says why he knows. Obvious. He only recites what others first told him to believe.

Finally, many if not most recommend a UPS to do what even the manufacturer does not claim. Hearsay is a major source of wild speculation and inaccurate claims.

Hearsay is also why so many know their computer consumes 700 watts. Anyone can feel it. Computer is not so hot as to toast bread. But many automatically believe what they were told rather than note obvious low temperatures.

UPS has one useful function - temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Because protection both required and routinely inside all electronics is more robust. To even protect electronics from 'dirty' UPS power.

Again, view waveforms from that AC utility that expose popular UPS myths. Clean power direct from AC is the left side sine wave. Then that UPS switches to battery. In both figures, that 'dirtiest' power what so many naive consumers call a pure sine wave output. They know because they heard it must be true. And not by first learning facts and numbers from an engineer who has done this stuff for decades - even before the IBM PC existed.

UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power to save unsaved data. Best hardware protection at electronics is already inside electronics. It does not do what is already done better inside every electronics appliance.

[LS1Goat]

Low voltage is problematic to motorized appliances. So many naive consumers assume same for electronics. Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. If voltage goes lower, then electronics power off - without damage.

Just for clarification; Is it your argument that there is no need plug in a device behind anytime of UPS/Surge suppressor/line conditioner because you think that all modern electronic devices have built in protection? Or, are you just dismissing the claims that a UPS functions as any sort of surge suppressor and can regulate AC voltage output?

Just plug a $1,000 AVR into the wall socket and hope for the best during storms and power outages. Hmm..Sounds legit.

Fourth. if that UPS does protection from voltage spikes and other power variations, then posted are spec numbers that make that claim. No numbers posted for one simple reason. No such numbers exist. No UPS claims such protection. In fact, its near zero joules is just enough to get naive consumers (who routinely ignore specification) to make unsubstantiated claims that LS1Goat has made.

^This makes no sense. They do claim protection from power fluctuations. They do provide certified product specs. And I'm just referring to consumer level UPS', not including Enterprise. For example: Mine is rated 1,500 Joules surge suppression. ISO-9001 Tested. Certified by FCC & UL. Not "near zero" as you claim.

UPS has one useful function - temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Because protection both required and routinely inside all electronics is more robust. To even protect electronics from 'dirty' UPS power.

How many times are you going to repeat this? I think I've been trolled.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

^This makes no sense. They do claim protection from power fluctuations. They do provide certified product specs. And I'm just referring to consumer level UPS', not including Enterprise. For example: Mine is rated 1,500 Joules surge suppression. ISO-9001 Tested. Certified by FCC & UL. Not "near zero" as you claim.

How many times are you going to repeat this? I think I've been trolled.

He's going to tell you that 1500 joules is near zero as compared to a 1-billion joule lightning event.

[westom]

Just for clarification; Is it your argument that there is no need plug in a device behind anytime of UPS/Surge suppressor/line conditioner because you think that all modern electronic devices have built in protection?

All electronics contain robust protection - as defined by numbers. Your concern is a rare transient (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm that protection. How does a UPS or surge protector absorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? How does a 2 cm part block what three miles of sky could not? It does not. Those numbers cannot be ignored. How many joules does a UPS or surge protector claim to absorb? 1500? How does it absorb destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. It doesn't. Its near zero number means it can claim 100% protection in sales brochures - to consumers who ignore numbers.

UPS in battery backup mode does not create pure sine waves.

How does a UPS, that only claims to absorb hundred of joules, avert surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. Question posted repeatedly because it bluntly exposes that UPS myth. And because it was ignored the first time.

In facilities that cannot have damage, direct lightning strikes are routinely earthed without damage. A telco CO suffers about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for four days after every storm? Never? Because they do not waste money on magic box, plug-in solutions. Instead a well proven and properly earthed 'whole house' solution is used. Then hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside the building. Then that current is not inside hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Then even your UPS or power strip would be protected.

None of this is new. This is how protection was done even 100 years ago - without obscene profit margins.

Stated again because it is proven by numbers. A UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power. Anomalies such as voltage variations are routinely made irrelevant by appliance designs. Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Normal voltage for all electronics. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? Where is a destructive voltage variation? Only in wild speculation and hearsay.

1500 joules is near zero protection. ISO-9001 is a quality control manufacturing standard. FCC is about EMC/EMI/RFI - interference to other appliances. UL is only about human safety. None say anything about product life expectancy, power factor, reverse polarity, hardware protection, or anything else relevant here. None says voltage fluctuations cause damage. None says a UPS outputs 'cleaner' power. None says anything about reduced harmonics. Please learn what those standards and numbers mean before citing them.

A UPS in battery backup mode outputs harmonics that may harm small motorize appliances. UPS can output spikes that even degrade power strip protectors. But that 'dirty' UPS power is ideal for electronics. All electronics are perfectly happy even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Would you ignore Tom MacIntyre because it contradicts your hearsay? Computers are even more robust; perfectly happy even when bulbs dim to *40%* intensity. Please unlearn popular and subjective urban myths.

Anomalies are made irrelevant by protection routinely found inside all electronics. Concern is a destructive transient that no power strip or UPS claims to protect from. A transient that may even overwhelm superior protection inside electronics. A 100 year proven technology from destructive surges is proper earthing of a 'whole house' protector. How robust is that protector? Again, who is recommending by also including spec numbers? The engineer who did this stuff even decades ago.

A direct lightning strike can be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector (for about $1 per protected appliance) is 50,000 amps. Proven solution means direct lightning strikes do not even damage a protector. Your UPS nor power strip claims such protection. And must be protected by a 'whole house' solution. The superior solution also costs tens or 100 times less money. And is how it was done even 100 years ago.

A UPS is temporary and dirty power so that unsaved data can be saved. A 'whole house' solution is protection of hardware from the rare and destructive transient. Different anomalies that require different solution.

[BERNIE MOSFET]

Ha!

[FunFordCobra]

1700 Joules is fine bro I live in a shitty apartment with dirty power. Found an APC 2200VA 1500 at microcenter that is pure sine wave and I haven't had a problem yet. It's a referb though so we'll see how it goes.

Lost a lot of coil whine on my cards too.

[Gasser64]

Definitely check the signal. Get an oscilloscope and check out the sine wave. I bet it looks terrible.

[westom]

1700 Joules is fine bro I live in a shitty apartment with dirty power.

Due to protection already inside every appliance, how often are you replacing a dishwasher, dimmer switches, LED or CFL bulbs, clocks, TV, GFCIs, etc? Destructive surges occur maybe once every seven years. What did a UPS do? Effective protection already exists inside all other appliances. Or were those on invisible UPSes?

Pure sine wave can be 'dirtiest' power. Square waves, spikes, and stepped wavea are also hyped as pure sine waves. Then many (if not most) consumers are easily scammed by the myth.

If a pure sine wave, then a specification number such as %THD was provided If that UPS protected hardware, then all other appliance must be damaged. How many surge damaged smoke detectors have you replaced? Or are all appliances on invisible UPSes?

Destructive surges occur maybe once even seven years. An expensive UPS successfully protected from a transient that never happened. That is proof of what? That consumers are easily scammed by hearsay.

[FunFordCobra]

Issue fixed if you actually read. Troll account obviously. 13 posts. Bye.