Web programming advice and suggestions

[bug1124]

I was hoping some of you web programming savvy types can advise me some on server side programming. It has been a while since my days of C++ in college and I never really got too much into making websites, but I have a need to create one to help streamline my quoting process.

I need to allow a client to submit a request for quote (and all applicable information) into a web form - have the info stored in a database - then recalled in a new format.

I realize this should be relatively trivial so hopefully there is some sort of template/starting point you can recommend for me. I don't know what the best language to use is (php, python, ruby, etc) nor which database type is most universal.

Thoughts?

[momo]

microsoft route: asp.NET web form, microsoft SQL database backend.

apache/freeware route: php + MySQL database.

[bug1124]

So PHP and MySQL are still the best. Thats what I used way back, but thought maybe something new had surpassed it.

Any good sources for templates that I can adapt for my use?

[BajaBob]

Check out xampp (if you are on a windows machine) to get a local server setup on your machine. Once you have a simple domain working on your machine, like http://localhost check back in and I'll help you get started programming. From there we can go over deployment to a production server.

[BajaBob]

So PHP and MySQL are still the best. Thats what I used way back, but thought maybe something new had surpassed it.

Any good sources for templates that I can adapt for my use?

They are still well supported and used in the industry, yes.

[Nash B.]

microsoft route: asp.NET web form, microsoft SQL database backend.

apache/freeware route: php + MySQL database.

What this guy said. ASP.NET is probably the easiest if you're rusty on programming, and SQL Server is the easiest to integrate into that. PHP is easy to learn and use, but not quite as powerful as Perl. If you want to take the time to learn it, Perl is great, and you can build websites pretty easily with Perl + Catalyst, and check out www.cpan.org - Perl modules for just about anything you could ever want. MySQL is great (and easily integrated with PHP and Perl, slightly more difficult to integrate with .NET but very doable).

[BajaBob]

What this guy said. ASP.NET is probably the easiest if you're rusty on programming, and SQL Server is the easiest to integrate into that. PHP is easy to learn and use, but not quite as powerful as Perl. If you want to take the time to learn it, Perl is great, and you can build websites pretty easily with Perl + Catalyst, and check out www.cpan.org - Perl modules for just about anything you could ever want. MySQL is great (and easily integrated with PHP and Perl, slightly more difficult to integrate with .NET but very doable).

No fucking way a microsoft product is "easier". Clicking a bunch of buttons and auto generated methods are fantastic (and easier), until you want to get something done. Then you end up making compromises on the end product because Microsoft hasn't made a wizard for writing that code for you yet.

Here is a great example of a site I did in 3 weeks, compared to the exact template that took a .NET programmer 6 months. I kid you not, all those little Microsoft GUI's and prompts are for monkey programmers who know squat about a backend. photo.tamu.edu - a site I did as a student programmer @ A&M (the guy who took 6 months had years of .NET experience).

There are two types of programmers in this world, one's who understand what they are doing, how the server works, etc, and ones that are great at hacking crap together. Don't kid yourself, there is a reason .NET isn't taught to students in a computer science program at a major university, stick with C++, like you mentioned, PHP is almost the same syntax anyways. You're better off learning it the right way the first time and then dumbing yourself down later if you ever need a job as a .NET programmer.

[bug1124]

Maybe i should back up and mention I really am a novice at this stuff. My actual profession is a Mechanical Engineer, but in school I took 3 C++ programming classes. I only ever dabbled with PHP and MySQL; however, now that I have a need I am debating between trying to learn it or find someone to build a skeleton for me to start from.

I just downloaded MAMP since I am on a mac and I have Coda...now where to begin .

[BajaBob]

MAMP, okay I am reading up on it right now. Will check back in shortly.

[BajaBob]

Wow, even easier than my setup... Well I have mine to accept a variable of vhosts, (which you can do too). Down the road if you ever had multiple sites on your system you wanted to test, you can edit your vhost config in apache and your browser will accept http://mysiteone and http://mysitetwo and so on.

The first thing you need to know is, if you ever edit or change a config or setting on your server you must restart apache. Apache takes your predefined file structure and turns it into a port forwarding document provider. Where its up to apache to decide what to do with these files in these "public" directories. So to start, take note of the default web directory "htdocs" on this page here. http://documentation.mamp.info/en/ma...erences/apache

[BajaBob]

this page, found at this location on your drive is your public folder. If this was a live server people would see the contents of this folder when they visited your site (say) bug.com.



If you create a simple html document, index.html put it in this directory with the text "hello world" your browser will now show you that text when you visit "http://localhost" you may need to include the port depending on the install "http://localhost:8888" This is what people will see when they visit your site.

Apache comes by default with a set of standards. For instance, whenever it sees a "index.html" or "index.php" it knows by default to load that file for that directory. So say you created another folder in "htdocs" called "downloads", and you placed another index.html in it. when you visit http://localhost/downloads it will load that new index file by default.

[BajaBob]

It is common practice to put these index files in directories that you dont want people to see the contents of. Without them apache will list out all the files in your system. In the downloads folder you can put a couple images and find them by name. http://localhost/downloads/image0.jpg and so on. To get these images to show up in your html you will need to learn html, for this example the IMG tag.

in your htdocs/index.html file put (ignore the ^) ^<^IMG SRC="downloads/image0.jpg" ^/^>^

When you load the page you will now see that image load.

[BajaBob]

The real beauty of PHP shines when you employ the work of a large framework. My favorite at the moment is Zend. These frameworks allow you to do some very powerful things, like integrate native PHP API's for connecting to a shopping cart service for google, or image host like flickr. They also employ the ability to easily debug and develop. The one great thing about web programming... No compiling! Just save and visit in your browser.

[bug1124]

So I have decided first to really dive into how I want things to function and perhaps even mock it up with Balsamiq.

What are your thoughts on the following coding stacks for my purposes and future capabilities?

PHP + MySQL
Express (http://expressjs.com/) which is built on top of Node.js
Python + Flask (http://flask.pocoo.org/) + MySQL or Postgresql for a database

After I really drill down to what I want I guess I will decide if I can tackle it myself or if it would be better to find some one to help.

[BajaBob]

Stay away from Javascript unless you are trying to make animations and such, it is a PITA to debug. Not recommended for novice use. I would explore JQuery, it is much better supported than expressjs, and has some of those extensions you are looking for.

Here is a viable stack for you,

PHP - takes care of logic, user authentication, database connections, form validation.
phpMyAdmin (php addon for MySQL) - graphical user interface for setting up your databases, tables, structure, etc.
MySQL - data storage
Javascript - later down the road when you want to make a polished website

These key elements will tackle %100 of everything you could possibly need for a rich web product. Python is not supported on most web hosts. Speaking of web hosts, have you explored any yet? I have some good suggestions if you are interested. Also, PM me your number and a time to chat if you want to go over this stuff faster.