4 Day Water Only Fast

[Chas_svo]

Doesn't the body eventually stop making insulin for type 1 patients?

If you take out the "eventually" part.

Type 1s are basically born with it. It's an autoimmune disease where the body destroys the cells that make insulin so those people have to have exogenous insulin.

He's on the right track but it depends on how you look at it. From everything I have read, hunger is at its lowest in the morning and it is greatest in the evening. So, if you were going to skip a meal it's reasonable to assume breakfast would be the easiest meal to skip. However, your metabolism peaks in the morning and is at its lowest in the evening so in actuality you would probably benefit more by skipping dinner instead.

Born with "it"?

Very few develop type 1 before adolescence. Most are adolescents or teens. Mine is even more rare "adult onset". Also, mine is weird that I am the first in my "well documented" family.

[Big A]

30 lbs in 2 months. I was overweight, now I'm not. Simple but true. That'd be a lot of water...


I do intermittent fasting. Where you always skip breakfast. I wait 6 hours every day after waking up before I'll eat anything at all. As a species its looking more and more like we don't need breakfast. It serves to make people tired and fat. Its also typically made out of trash that a goat wouldn't eat. So there's that to consider. A couple of corrected corporate/advertising lies below:

1. Breakfast is the worst meal of the day

2. Milk. Does a body harm.

I've read that 6-month water-only fasts are perfectly safe, you should try it.

[Gasser64]

I would not agree with #1 in the slightest... and I enjoy intermittent fasting.

An over simplification I guess, but it still helps to skip it. Sure you could eat a bunch of fruits and vegetables instead of the slow-poison trash most people stuff down in the morning, but I'd argue that just skipping that meal completely and then eating the (raw) veggies for lunch would be a better idea.

[D. Lil]

If you take out the "eventually" part.



Born with "it"?

Meaning it's in their genetics but I could be wrong

[Fastback]

I got all inspired and tried to fast yesterday. At 230 I went to Keller's for a burger and onion rings followed by a whole box of Wheat Thins for dinner. Somehow I associate drinking lots of beer with fasting.

[Ruffdaddy]

If you're fasting and working out...you are certainly going to lose muscle. Its similar to how incredibly difficult it is to lose fat and gain muscle (body recomposition) unless you're a total noob. When I'm dropping weight I have to be incredibly religious about not cutting too fast because I have ran into more muscle loss than I was happy with when dropping to 1500 calories a day.

Simply cutting sodium alone will likely make you drop 3-5 lbs if you're a 200lb guy...add in a little dat and muscle loss and of course it will look like an accomplishment.

If your only goal is weight loss and you don't care about muscle loss...by all means fast away. But if you're trying to hang onto hard earned muscle...read up on proper recomposition. Losing more than 1% per week puts you in the muscle loss danger zone.

[Big A]

A relatively short-term fast shouldn't be considered a fat-loss tool at all imo, I was merely concerned with the damage that could be done, should I do one to cleanse and reset. I totally agree that cutting weight should be regimented over a matter of months, not a matter of days. It's all of the other things being mentioned that intrigue me.

I think I'll save it for when I hit the next plateau though, or perhaps once I've reached my goal, as not to disrupt progress.

[D. Lil]

If you're fasting and working out...you are certainly going to lose muscle. Its similar to how incredibly difficult it is to lose fat and gain muscle (body recomposition) unless you're a total noob. When I'm dropping weight I have to be incredibly religious about not cutting too fast because I have ran into more muscle loss than I was happy with when dropping to 1500 calories a day.

If your only goal is weight loss and you don't care about muscle loss...by all means fast away. But if you're trying to hang onto hard earned muscle...read up on proper recomposition. Losing more than 1% per week puts you in the muscle loss danger zone.

That's because you are talking about caloric reduction which is different from fasting. I saw a study where this dude didn't eat for 3 weeks and his lean tissue mass stayed the same.

“From the studies reviewed here, it would appear as though a lower proportion of lean mass is lost in response to intermittent calorie restriction (90% weight lost as fat, 10% weight loss as fat free mass) when compared to daily calorie restriction (75% weight lost as fat, 25% weight loss as fat free mass).”

[KBScobravert]

I recognize that I'm not going to build muscle at the same rate as a person who eats 3,000 calories a day and consumes more protein than I do when I'm intermittent fasting or fasting for a longer period (24 to 36 hrs).

My weight is near a goal weight I've set for myself while intermittently fasting and weight training in the gym.

Once I get my body fat down and my body weight into the 170s, I will start increasing the calories and protein to focus more on building muscle vs dropping fat.

I've been documenting every gym routine for the past year. I can tell each week I am stronger than the last, both in number of reps and the weights plus the mirror and belt/clothes tests.

[Ruffdaddy]

That's because you are talking about caloric reduction which is different from fasting. I saw a study where this dude didn't eat for 3 weeks and his lean tissue mass stayed the same.

“From the studies reviewed here, it would appear as though a lower proportion of lean mass is lost in response to intermittent calorie restriction (90% weight lost as fat, 10% weight loss as fat free mass) when compared to daily calorie restriction (75% weight lost as fat, 25% weight loss as fat free mass).”

Do you have a link to that study? The biggest difference is the short duration of fasting vs a sustained slow loss diet, but you're still going to consume muscle mass.

I've never seen a true scientific study that suggests you can fast and workout without relatively aggressive muscle loss.

I recognize that I'm not going to build muscle at the same rate as a person who eats 3,000 calories a day and consumes more protein than I do when I'm intermittent fasting or fasting for a longer period (24 to 36 hrs).

My weight is near a goal weight I've set for myself while intermittently fasting and weight training in the gym.

Once I get my body fat down and my body weight into the 170s, I will start increasing the calories and protein to focus more on building muscle vs dropping fat.

I've been documenting every gym routine for the past year. I can tell each week I am stronger than the last, both in number of reps and the weights plus the mirror and belt/clothes tests.

There's 2 big differences in your case:

1 - you're only "fasting" for 17 hours. Everything I've read indicates this isn't long enough to even deplete glycogen stores.

2 - You're on hormone therapy which definitely changes the dynamics.

I should have specified that I'm referring to the multi-day fasting referenced in this thread and all natural.

[Chas_svo]

Meaning it's in their genetics but I could be wrong

That's correct. Born genetically susceptible.

[KBScobravert]

There's 2 big differences in your case:

1 - you're only "fasting" for 17 hours. Everything I've read indicates this isn't long enough to even deplete glycogen stores.

2 - You're on hormone therapy which definitely changes the dynamics.

I should have specified that I'm referring to the multi-day fasting referenced in this thread and all natural.

Oh, no doubt. I was just responding in general.

1. you are right for most folks. I have been on low carbs for so long though and since a month ago dropped carbs and sugars completely out. At the 30hour mark of straight water, I can see ketones in my urine. So I deplete faster than average. I did read that the average person carries 2,000 calories in glucose and 40,000 in fat.

2. yep. which is why I think I am trading 1 for 1 fat for muscle since the scale hardly moves south despite what I see in the mirror and in the way my belt and clothes fit.

[DON SVO]

Do you have a link to that study? The biggest difference is the short duration of fasting vs a sustained slow loss diet, but you're still going to consume muscle mass.

I've never seen a true scientific study that suggests you can fast and workout without relatively aggressive muscle loss.

I think your disconnect is that, for some reason, you keep wanting to throw "working out" into a couple situations that were strictly fasts.

[Ruffdaddy]

I think your disconnect is that, for some reason, you keep wanting to throw "working out" into a couple situations that were strictly fasts.

Did you even read the first post and half the second page? The first post specifically mentions weight loss and working out whereas the second page discusses the same information in further detail but with some bad "data".

Lastly...this is the pumping iron forum...not the "let's starve ourselves skinny" forum.

[Ruffdaddy]

Oh, no doubt. I was just responding in general.

1. you are right for most folks. I have been on low carbs for so long though and since a month ago dropped carbs and sugars completely out. At the 30hour mark of straight water, I can see ketones in my urine. So I deplete faster than average. I did read that the average person carries 2,000 calories in glucose and 40,000 in fat.

2. yep. which is why I think I am trading 1 for 1 fat for muscle since the scale hardly moves south despite what I see in the mirror and in the way my belt and clothes fit.

I wish I could do that (1 for 1). On my current cutting cycle I started too aggressive because I'm satisfied with my muscle mass (err thought I was) and didn't realize how easy it can be to lose on an aggressive deficit. It took a month to realize that I had lost a few lbs of lean mass that I really prefer to keep. Since then i read up on a lot of research to see where I should be diet wise and realized how many times I've messed up.

So now I try to make sure it's known that any hardcore rapid weight loss is going to come at the expense of muscle as well (barring no hormones or noob gains)