Weight loss vs fat loss, the basics.

[tex]

Since the other one got sidetracked, I’ll take the opportunity to start from the beginning...

Let me throw up a disclaimer: Nothing posted in this thread is intended to be portrayed as either an absolute truth, or the only possible option. Do what you like, figure out what you like, what works for you, and use whatever means you want to justify your choice. This is information I've found from Olympic level coaches, physiologists, and the like, because I'm a huge nerd and exercise physiology just happens to be an area that interests me.

Disclaimer #2: If you don't like lifting, don't want to lift, or feel superior to those who lift, all the methods of stressing the body presented here are easily replicated without resistance training, but the effectiveness may vary.

I’ll try to include all the basic science, while providing basic interpretations. If something doesn’t seem clear, I’ll be happy to readdress it.

First things first, weight loss does not equal fat loss. Many people lose weight, and just end up a smaller fat person. While diet is the most important factor to weight loss, excess calorie reduction is indiscriminate, and the body will burn both fat and muscle when starved. Everything I'm posting is based on the assumption that the athlete wants to maintain as much muscle (strength) as possible while reducing bodyfat.

Most bodybuilders don't use these methods, because a crash diet will cut weight faster, and the loss of strength isn't an issue. This is also why the high rep for weight loss myth started, because the BBers lost the strength for heavy work, but still needed time under tension to maintain size, which was attained through high rep work. Recent trends for BBers and strength athletes have shifted towards less of a 'bulk' period, which means less of a cut, and some of these techniques are included in some routines.

Most endurance athletes don't use these methods, because they are training long and hard enough to achieve the same body composition goals without needing to focus on reaching a catabolic state.

Basic physiology and vocabulary first:
Catabolic: breaking down complex molecules to simpler molecules to access energy. (burning tissue for fuel)
Anabolic: the process of building tissue from simple nutrients. (growing muscle from fuel)
Aerobic: involving oxygen consumption. (breathing for fuel)
Anaerobic: existing without oxygen (accessing fuel without oxygen)
Metabolism: the consumption of nutrients needed to function.
EPOC: Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption
Body composition: purely based on body fat percentage, which has nothing to do with weight.
HIIT: High Intensity Interval Training

[tex]

In order for the body to begin using accessible fat for fuel, glycogen stores must first be burnt off. In order for the body to burn off the glycogen stores, it must first use all the oxygen in the body, which is aerobic exercise. Typically, once a person starts heavy breathing, they have reached the point where they've depleted oxygen stores in the blood, and breathing becomes a maintenance function, instead of a fueling function. From this point on, the body burns glycogen, which is an anaerobic function. When the body begins reaches a catabolic state, you’ll begin to feel the ‘2nd wind,’ because you’re tapping a new energy source. The downside is, when you reach this point, you’re burning muscle as well as fat.

Once the glycogen stores are depleted, the body starts scavenging for fuel, and attacks fat and muscle, entering the body into a catabolic state. This is the reason why athletes carb load before events, because high carb food stocks the glycogen stores, preventing muscle scavenging. This is also the cause of another myth: that long endurance training causes strength loss. That is only the case when the athlete extends past their glycogen levels, AND fails to fuel themselves properly during and after the event. Some events or training sessions are so severe that it is impossible to avoid, but mostly it’s an excuse.

Based on that information, it seems evident that creating an oxygen deficiency is the key to triggering fat loss. While it is true that an oxygen debt is the first step, it isn’t the key. The key is to prepare the body to be oxygen deficient for the longest period of time possible, so that it continues to feed on fat for fuel, while nutrients are used to restore energy to muscles. This means training the body to burn fat for as long as possible, which is different from burning the most fat during a workout. To burn as much fat as possible, you want to train in a manner which creates the largest EPOC. The longer the body is in an oxygen-deficient state, the longer it is burning fat for energy. Enter the post from thread 1.

Post #1:

I don't have access to all the info I had saved on another computer, so I just pulled 1 study for now, in order to continue the discussion from the other thread.
This link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932584
is a brief synopsis of a study the concludes that lifting heavier for lower reps creates a higher EPOC than does lower weights and higher reps, given similar groups of lifters. EPOC is Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption, which is just a fancy way of tracking the effect a workout has, after you stop working out. This study leads to 2 conclusions in favor of lifting heavier:
1) the metabolic effect of heavier lifting is greater, and in turn the lifter burns more calories when NOT exercising
2) being stronger will make burning calories easier, based on both the increased workload allowed the stronger lifter, and the increased metabolic function of a body with more muscle, which burns more calories in a resting state than does fat.
There are benefits to high rep work, especially when considering specific joints or movement patterns, but scientifically, lifting heavier promotes a leaner physique than lifting lighter.

When I get back to a normal routine, I'll link up some more studies discussing the benefit of different rest periods on both cardiovascular response and musculature response.

Pubmed is a great resource for anyone looking to learn more about the effects of work load and food sources on a body, but can be very technical.

[tex]

Consider that post to be the base. Ignore that it references weight lifting, because the key factor is intensity. Intensity is the measure of effort, and varies from person to person, independent of fitness level. 85% effort is 85% effort, whether a person is 50% body fat, or 5%. When it comes to effort and body fat, percentages are all that matter. If you think in terms of pounds, you will have trouble equating your effort to the amount of fat loss possible.

The above study, which is one of many with similar results, says that greater fat loss will result from higher intensity, even with shorter durations. That means that short bursts of extreme effort will show better dividends than prolonged low effort. That holds true whether you lift or run, and there is a ton of information showing the effectiveness of interval cardiovascular work (sprinting).

Based on the basic physiological information presented so far, a safe inference would be: engaging more muscles in intense workouts would create a larger EPOC, resulting in greater daily metabolic burn.

Here is where people need to take a cautious approach. DO NOT over extend yourself. While the human body is capable of adapting to almost any stressor they may encounter, it takes time to build up a tolerance. Where to begin? Begin wherever your current fitness allows you. You have to learn to listen to your body. If you can’t sprint, don’t, start wherever you can. It does NOT matter how fast or heavy you work, only that you push yourself.

If warranted, I’ll address the mental aspects of training, because that’s really why I do it, but for now, just remember your body will try and trick you into not working hard if you don’t have to, because it’s a self preserving entity, and wants to conserve energy.

In the beginning:
Long effort periods eventually burn through to catabolism, and over a long period of time, high resistance effort can lead to enough muscle mass to burn sufficient calories to burn fat. But…

High effort intervals, mixed with rest, are how a body is most efficient at learning to expend energy and increase metabolism. Period. This has no bearing on training for a specific event, we’re only talking about burning fat.

[tex]

There are many different ways to approach interval effort. It’s fairly simple, that it boils down to a determined period of very high effort, followed by a specific period of rest, and repeat. The key is to not focus on the workload, but only on the effort.

Example: If you choose to do interval running, don’t focus on the time or distance you run, but only on the effort you put into it. If you’re running 90%, that’s going to be 90%. The same with lifting. You may not be able to handle the same workload repeatedly in the beginning, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t working as HARD.

The great thing is that you don’t have to change methods as you progress, you only have to adjust your workload. The biggest factor with fat loss is learning to scale effort, and the worst factor… is learning to scale effort. You get what you give.

Read this:

http://www.tabataprotocol.com/

That is the template. Duration of effort versus duration of rest is the key. Follow the pattern, and you WILL see results. 2:1, 6:3, 5:2.5, doesn’t matter. The only factor is effort. Effort does not only mean working at a high level, but forcing yourself to get back to work after the given time period.

If it sounds like I’m advocating only that method, rest assured, I am not. I just feel that is the best and most succinct way to present the concept. High intensity, followed by complete rest, within a scaled timeframe. You can use 20 seconds of work, or a minute. You can use compound lifting movements, or running. You can choose a cardio machine in any gym in the world. HIIT has been acknowledged for years, this only allows a template for a trainee to adapt the theory to any means of effort.

As support for the Tabata Protocol, here are links from 2 noted trainers. Dan John has trained everyone from high school kids to Olympic level hockey and track athletes. Ross Enamait is a widely recognized trainer and internet guru. Which means nothing, but he knows his shit.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_tabata_method

http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/tabataintervals.html

The only reason those 2 were referenced is because they have different backgrounds and strategies. DJ is a track and Oly guy, and Ross is a core and Average Joe performance guy. They’re here just to emphasize the point that the method is worthy of widespread support from real world experts, not just eggheads in a lab in Nova Scotia. In addition, they show different approaches to the template, via different potential exercises.

The key point of all this crap, is to find a way to stress yourself at a high intensity for a short period of time, rest roughly half that time, and do it again. Be aware that the more muscles or effort you use, the shorter your effort time should be.

I addressed goals in the original thread, but as a reminder, know what you’re working towards. Your goals determine how you proceed, so you need to prioritize.

Now, just because some masochist says bust your ass, be practical. Know your limits, and begin accordingly. There is no more important factor to personal satisfaction, than learning how to adapt knowledge to fit your own requirements, so do so. If you can’t handle 5 rounds of intervals, fine. Don’t kill yourself the first time you try something new, don’t be afraid to ease into it. Be aware of yourself and be honest with your abilities. But don’t make excuses for yourself.

I’ll try to come back and address specific lifting or running protocols, but I did this shit for free, so you get what you give. My only personal advice is to not throw yourself into the deep end unless you truly know how to swim, don’t lie to yourself. Start small and work your way towards YOUR goal. There is only one person you have to answer to.

[FunFordCobra]

"The above study, which is one of many with similar results, says that greater fat loss will result from higher intensity, even with shorter durations. That means that short bursts of extreme effort will show better dividends than prolonged low effort. That holds true whether you lift or run, and there is a ton of information showing the effectiveness of interval cardiovascular work (sprinting)."

I have been doing this ALL summer.

It's been working wonders and I'm finally starting to lose that sub-abdominal fat that I have been having to carry around with me that's left over from the 400 lbs..

I'm in my last stages of leaning because of this and it's making my endurance in EVERYTHING go through the roof!

I'm to the point where the Treadmills in all the 24hr's don't go fast enough for me to keep progressing lol..

I've read something similar to this that you posted before and has part of my guidelines and I think is one of the reasons I was one of the more sucessful weight loss/ mass gain stories.

Ever since it got too cold to run outside, I've cut down on the cardio from 40-80 min a day to no more then 2 20 min full out heart racing cardio sessions. None of that starting on a 7 or 8 pace shit I start on 9 and work up to 12! (fast as it goes) And feel more satisfied and WAY LESS TIRED at the end of the day.

I hope people actually read and research into this because it's basically what I preach nut in laymens terms lol!

I've got alot of good info from you man.. Thanks alot.