what's your definition of the best overall athlete?

[stangin4lyfe]

I think powerlifters would disagree with this statement.

Yup, most would agree it's more so about technique and explosiveness.

[TINKRD]

I think powerlifters would disagree with this statement.

i disagree with your disagree. lol lifting is about technique & form and not just strength.

[Jonny00GT]

YES!!! RD approval yet again! I'm on a roll!! haha

My only point, which does not detract from the difficulty or skill level required for CF, is only that the elements I mentioned, which are present in any sport that has multiple moving parts and unknown variables, are missing in CF. You draw and you know your movement...then it's how many and how fast you can get it done. No one is going to pop up and try to tackle you, throw a ball or a punch at your face that you have to have reflexes to avoid or a specialized skill set anyone who works out in the gym, has climbed a wall or worked on a farm doesn't have or couldn't pick up in a few minutes.

In no way did I say in any shape or form that CF competetors are not athletes! I only said, they are not the pinicle as described at the start of this thread. It's double tough...no doubt!

[Shorty]

i disagree with your disagree. lol lifting is about technique & form and not just strength.

So someone without brute strength that has better technique and form can outlift someone with far superior brute strength? I agree technique and form are a factor but without strength they are useless. You can have perfect technique and form but if you are weak, you are weak.

[TINKRD]

So someone without brute strength that has better technique and form can outlift someone with far superior brute strength? I agree technique and form are a factor but without strength they are useless. You can have perfect technique and form but if you are weak, you are weak.

you're misreading what i've typed, or maybe i'm not clear.

i never said you dont have to have strength. yes you require it, but its not just about that.

perfect example is what happened to me last night. we were doing front squats yesterday. max reps with 185lbs.

a guy who's 3 inches shorter then me, a good 45lbs lighter then me did 17 reps. has excellent technique and form. i was only able to muster 15 reps before my form gave out and i leaned forward too far to compensate.

am i stronger then him? yes. Was he able to out perform me on this excerise? yes. why? he had better technique and form.

[Shorty]

you're misreading what i've typed, or maybe i'm not clear.

i never said you dont have to have strength. yes you require it, but its not just about that.

perfect example is what happened to me last night. we were doing front squats yesterday. max reps with 185lbs.

a guy who's 3 inches shorter then me, a good 45lbs lighter then me did 17 reps. has excellent technique and form. i was only able to muster 15 reps before my form gave out and i leaned forward too far to compensate.

am i stronger then him? yes. Was he able to out perform me on this excerise? yes. why? he had better technique and form.

Yeah, I just glanced at what you said and didn't think about it.

[stangin4lyfe]

you're misreading what i've typed, or maybe i'm not clear.

i never said you dont have to have strength. yes you require it, but its not just about that.

perfect example is what happened to me last night. we were doing front squats yesterday. max reps with 185lbs.

a guy who's 3 inches shorter then me, a good 45lbs lighter then me did 17 reps. has excellent technique and form. i was only able to muster 15 reps before my form gave out and i leaned forward too far to compensate.

am i stronger then him? yes. Was he able to out perform me on this excerise? yes. why? he had better technique and form.

How do you figure you are stronger than him?
I'm guessing you mean that in one rep MAX you have him beat in front squats?

[TINKRD]

How do you figure you are stronger than him?
I'm guessing you mean that in one rep MAX you have him beat in front squats?

in my statement, yes, i was basing it on a one rep Max type scenario.

but then you can lead that into "what is the definition of strength?"

[Flashstang04]

So someone without brute strength that has better technique and form can outlift someone with far superior brute strength? I agree technique and form are a factor but without strength they are useless. You can have perfect technique and form but if you are weak, you are weak.

Strength without technique is wasted. My brother is a college power lifter and snatches 285 at a weight of 170. He is tall and thin, but his technique is perfect.

[Jonny00GT]

This thread has derailed. Let's boil it down to brass tacks. Can brute strength beat out perfect form and technique in a weaker oponent...hell to the yes! Who hasn't seen it?!!
Does someone who has good form, end his set because he "loses" his form, or does he lose his strength and his form breaks?? The first link Flash posted is a perfect example of this. When the guys get weak, their form goes to crap, but they still get them up on brute strength.

Tink, your budy didn't beat you cause of his form, he beat you cause of his endurance. Now, if you'd said you beat him in a max lift, then y'all worked out and your form sux compared to him and he did more reps, he still beat you on stamina...not strength or form. I think you're putting the effect ahead of the cause...no offense.

And I still don't see what this has to do with the most well rounded athlete.

-Jonny

[Flashstang04]

This thread has derailed. Let's boil it down to brass tacks. Can brute strength beat out perfect form and technique in a weaker oponent...hell to the yes! Who hasn't seen it?!!
Does someone who has good form, end his set because he "loses" his form, or does he lose his strength and his form breaks?? The first link Flash posted is a perfect example of this. When the guys get weak, their form goes to crap, but they still get them up on brute strength.

And I still don't see what this has to do with the most well rounded athlete.

-Jonny

I think that is subjective to the sport. Take the Gracie's for example. Before everyone 'upped' their game and starting learning BJJ, they were easily destroying larger stronger opponents.

[Jonny00GT]

I think that is subjective to the sport. Take the Gracie's for example. Before everyone 'upped' their game and starting learning BJJ, they were easily destroying larger stronger opponents.

That's not relative. You've now switched to a sport that DOES require quick reflexes, the ability to adapt and all around athleticism. Did Hoice beat those guys cause of his technique alone? He first had to not get hit, then get in close, not get crushed, wear them down(if they were really strong), catch them in a move he could make stick and then apply pressure. You ever roll with a grapler, wrestler, gymnist...tell me those fool aren't farm boy strong!!

Also, didn't Matt Hughs spank Hoice? You think Matt's technique was better? ...or do you think it was sufficient and he's a lot stronger??

-Jonny

[stangin4lyfe]

You guys keep researching and debating, I'm headed to the gym to do work!

[Jonny00GT]

Further, you think if Hoice had perfect form he could have clean and jerked more than Shamrock???

[Flashstang04]

That's not relative. You've now switched to a sport that DOES require quick reflexes, the ability to adapt and all around athleticism. Did Hoice beat those guys cause of his technique alone? He first had to not get hit, then get in close, not get crushed, wear them down(if they were really strong), catch them in a move he could make stick and then apply pressure. You ever roll with a grapler, wrestler, gymnist...tell me those fool aren't farm boy strong!!

Also, didn't Matt Hughs spank Hoice? You think Matt's technique was better? ...or do you think it was sufficient and he's a lot stronger??

-Jonny

What I think is that we could both come up with the facts we want and be right. In a fight anyone can lose on a given day. It was just Royce's day to lose (He is still 14-2-3).

I also think Stangin has the right idea lol. Off to catch a workout!