Fila Skele-Toes...anyone tried these yet???

[BradM]

Nah, I run WAY too much to even think about using these or anything like them. Only heard bad things really from runners.. I'm sure they are fine if you are wanting attention or wanting someone to talk to you about them..

Not knocking them..whatever keeps your feet comfortable and happy.. There are some really jacked up feet out there that might actually fit snug and comfortable in them.

If you run more than a couple of miles a week you should open your mind and try them. Do you think our feet evolved this way for no reason other than to make Us uncomfortable in running shoes?
Do you also wear padded mittens rather than gloves?

[Jonny00GT]

Nah, I run WAY too much to even think about using these or anything like them. Only heard bad things really from runners.. I'm sure they are fine if you are wanting attention or wanting someone to talk to you about them..

Not knocking them..whatever keeps your feet comfortable and happy.. There are some really jacked up feet out there that might actually fit snug and comfortable in them.

So, you've never tried them or done any research and your opinion is based solely on "...heard bad things really from runners."?? Well...you've convinced me!

My personal experience, that of my wife, the hours of research, books I've read, video footage, impact graphs, pressure pad readouts, professional running coach techniques, investigation into the origin of the foam wedge running shoe, research into why people who grew up barefoot kick our asses in every long distance run there is, how people who ACTUALLY DO run "WAY too much" found relief from the common running injuries I'm sure you're fighting through as we speak...all of that time... just laid to waste by your scathing undeniable evidence! Someone get me some Nike's quick!!!

Next time you post...please, know WTF you're talking about...emkay?

-Jonny

[Ruffdaddy]

If you run more than a couple of miles a week you should open your mind and try them. Do you think our feet evolved this way for no reason other than to make Us uncomfortable in running shoes?
Do you also wear padded mittens rather than gloves?

You're kidding me right?! Padded mittens? This has got to be the absolute dumbest argument for barefoot running I have EVER heard. No one logs Thousands of miles on their hands a week to even need the support provided by a running shoe. The stupidity in that comparison shows further that barefoot runners are just stretching for anyone to buy their shit.

[Ruffdaddy]

So, you've never tried them or done any research and your opinion is based solely on "...heard bad things really from runners."?? Well...you've convinced me!

My personal experience, that of my wife, the hours of research, books I've read, video footage, impact graphs, pressure pad readouts, professional running coach techniques, investigation into the origin of the foam wedge running shoe, research into why people who grew up barefoot kick our asses in every long distance run there is, how people who ACTUALLY DO run "WAY too much" found relief from the common running injuries I'm sure you're fighting through as we speak...all of that time... just laid to waste by your scathing undeniable evidence! Someone get me some Nike's quick!!!

Next time you post...please, know WTF you're talking about...emkay?

-Jonny

Alright Jonny I'm tired of your pushy hypocritical shit on this subject. You blabber about how great this is and how the body evolved and how running barefoot is natural. But then you take a stimulant cocktail before workouts? That's sure as hell not evolution or natural...nice flip flopping on which part of natural you choose.

Here are the facts...the people you argue with are not newcomers to the workout game. I know FFC is in awesome shape, and I have also been in the workout game for a long time.

First - Not everyone is the same. Some people needs supports and braces others don't. It's a person to person basis.

Second - There are also alot of reports on how barefoot running is bad. You are just a sheep that follows the fad without paying attention to the negative because it doesn't contribute to your story line. Trust me...I've done the research too.

Third - You're arguing with people who can kick your ass in most athletic competitions...that should be enough said.

You have 3 or 4 threads on the main page about this stupid subject. I understand if it's your passion and all...but damn dude give it a rest. It's cool if it helps you but the replys like the one I quoted are just stupid. Especially coming from someone who isn't in near the shape or speed many others on this board are.

[FunFordCobra]

Not knocking them..whatever keeps your feet comfortable and happy..

Did you miss this part or just feel like attacking me for honestly answering what my opinion was...If you REALLY thought they were GREAT, you wouldn't need any reassurance from the Pumpin' Iron forum..

[Jonny00GT]

Alright Jonny I'm tired of your pushy hypocritical shit on this subject. You blabber about how great this is and how the body evolved and how running barefoot is natural. But then you take a stimulant cocktail before workouts? That's sure as hell not evolution or natural...nice flip flopping on which part of natural you choose.

Here are the facts...the people you argue with are not newcomers to the workout game. I know FFC is in awesome shape, and I have also been in the workout game for a long time.

First - Not everyone is the same. Some people needs supports and braces others don't. It's a person to person basis.

Second - There are also alot of reports on how barefoot running is bad. You are just a sheep that follows the fad without paying attention to the negative because it doesn't contribute to your story line. Trust me...I've done the research too.

Third - You're arguing with people who can kick your ass in most athletic competitions...that should be enough said.

You have 3 or 4 threads on the main page about this stupid subject. I understand if it's your passion and all...but damn dude give it a rest. It's cool if it helps you but the replys like the one I quoted are just stupid. Especially coming from someone who isn't in near the shape or speed many others on this board are.

Let's back up a sec. We were talking bout a shoe co jumping on the VFF ban wagon and had anyone tried them.(Nikey has a camel-toe looking shoe with matching socks and is working on foot sticker pads, too, BTW) 8MPG asked what was up with the trend. I explained and was brief and I even said, it's not about the shoes, right? Your boy FFC was the one that came with the post first, try and back it up later. I even gave him the benefit of the doubt at first. We all have enough posts on here to know posting an opinion without first hand knowledge on DFWM is an invitation to flames and taunts of "show us your tits"! We were having a little discussion about the shoes, till you 2.

Honestly, I expected more. You came with, I'm fat and slow, so I'm wrong? You said, Facts, man! You said you did research. Please post links. Words hurt, man! LOL!

Besides, if I can run pain free AND ENJOY IT for the first time at 38yrs of age, after knee surgery, shoulder surgery, 3 abdominal surgeries, starting when I'm 258lbs and complete a 5K in under 30min after less than 2mo running when I've NEVER been a runner, you really don't think there is something to this?? Do you really have research on BFR being bad for you(not too much too soon crap...real, if you run barefoot it could do this to that stuff) or are you opposing cause it's different and you're defending your friend??

I gotta say, you lost credibility with me when you said, because I take supplements before I lift I'm a hypocrite for running barefoot. Tell me you're still drunk from last night or something. You know that don't make no damn sense. You're better than that. I'm not moving to the woods, eating tree bark and running the trails bare-ass naked! Who said shit bout "naturalist"?? You tell me there is an energy drink designed for runners that will make me faster and run longer with no side effects, I hear 200lbs that much sooner and I'm all over that shit!!

Yes, I am excited about this! I've hated running for 38yrs and it was as simple as the way I move and how I land. You think I should keep it to myself? I lost 12lbs in a month doing something that's finally fun!

Did you miss this part or just feel like attacking me for honestly answering what my opinion was...If you REALLY thought they were GREAT, you wouldn't need any reassurance from the Pumpin' Iron forum..

You can't say: "Only heard bad things really from runners.. I'm sure they are fine if you are wanting attention or wanting someone to talk to you about them." and then throw out "I'm not knocking them" when you just did! LOL. My only point is, how can you give an opinion without any direct experience? Have you EVER seen a review of a gun, a shoe, a phone where they said,"Only heard bad things really from others." No...no one has! Have you ever seen it fly here in your thousands of posts? You'd get flamed, "show us your girls Tits and STFU", and you know I'm right! So...Tits or facts...what's it gonna be??

[Ruffdaddy]

Honestly, I expected more. You came with, I'm fat and slow, so I'm wrong? You said, Facts, man! You said you did research. Please post links. Words hurt, man! LOL!

Besides, if I can run pain free AND ENJOY IT for the first time at 38yrs of age, after knee surgery, shoulder surgery, 3 abdominal surgeries, starting when I'm 258lbs and complete a 5K in under 30min after less than 2mo running when I've NEVER been a runner, you really don't think there is something to this?? Do you really have research on BFR being bad for you(not too much too soon crap...real, if you run barefoot it could do this to that stuff) or are you opposing cause it's different and you're defending your friend??

I gotta say, you lost credibility with me when you said, because I take supplements before I lift I'm a hypocrite for running barefoot. Tell me you're still drunk from last night or something. You know that don't make no damn sense. You're better than that. I'm not moving to the woods, eating tree bark and running the trails bare-ass naked! Who said shit bout "naturalist"?? You tell me there is an energy drink designed for runners that will make me faster and run longer with no side effects, I hear 200lbs that much sooner and I'm all over that shit!!

I never said you're fat and slow...but if that's what you got out of me pointing out that we're in better shape and have been doing this longer, then I'm sure the title fits. Keep putting words in my mouth and tell me more about your insecurities. The point is... I'm gonna trust someone in good shape much better than someone that isn't even running fast enough to get an injury. Yep that's another huge point - Injuries don't come as often when you're not hitting higher performance numbers. 10min/mi is easy run or active recovery pace, and not enough to obtain many injuries from. Oh wait...that's just years of active track experience coming...not my "research" based on web articles. Probably means nothing.

The whole fact that you're 38 with that many serious injuries tells me that you know nothing about staying healthy. Seriously man...you shoulda left that out if you want to prove a point about your knowledge of preventing injury.

And me and FFC are FAR from friends. Most of the time we're not agreeing. I just recognize someone that has worked that hard to be in that good of shape. And I'm sick of seeing you think that you know it all because you read a cult classic book about being born to run.

Lastly, theres a lot wrong with your perception. I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension skills at this point btw. You are literally incapable of reading through full sentences. I was not saying there's a hypocritical conflict between supplements and running barefoot. I was pointing out that it's hypocritical to defend barefoot running with calling it the natural evolution of the foot, and all the bull shit you say about how the body is made to run barefoot. Then you come back and take an aggressive stimulant coctail because apparently the body isn't evolved enough to keep your energy up enough. You choose your cheater, then blast the over marketed shoe companies as the bad guy.

This is another pointless argument just like with AnthonyS and crossfit. You will only listen to what you want to hear. You will only read the stuff that supports your arguments. At least Anthony isn't a fad exercise jockey. I'm through here until you pull your head out of your own ass to understand there's more to exercise than barefoot jogging.

[GAP]

I bought a pair. 49.99 @ dicks. Ive never worn minimalist/toe shoes before. I'll report back after some use.

[Ruffdaddy]

First let me reiterate my stance on this again. EVERYONE is different, some need more support than others and some people are fine running barefoot. But Barefoor running is NOT for everyone.

"research" about injuries caused by barefoot running:

http://running.competitor.com/2010/05/features/the-barefoot-running-injury-epidemic_10118

http://www.therunningfront.com/running-form/beware-of-barefoot-running-injuries/

“Throw your shoes away for good? Sure, if you have perfect mechanics and you’ve been living barefoot all of your life,” says Dr. Mark Cucuzzella, a West Virginia University professor and 2:25 marathoner who has studied barefoot and minimalist runners in relation to running injuries. “But that’s not the majority of runners. Most runners absolutely need to wear shoes when they run.”

Input from doctors showing that it is dependent on the person:

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/features/barefoot-running-should-you-shed-your-shoes

[ceyko]

Hey, those Africans that chase down animals until they are pooped - run barefooted!

I use shoes - used them when running 45 minute 10Ks (Really hot in Iraq) and will use them for my really slow 5/10K runs now. I tend to side with Ruffdaddy's opinion on personal experience and what the crowd does. (right up until they jump off that damned bridge)

The only question I have for FFC and Ruffdaddy is if you know people who have tried these newer styles and hated them? Or were they folks who generally just stuck with sneakers? I personally don't care either way, I'll be slow in either. I'm just curious for my own purposes. Fitness is not my #1 priority and I don't socialize in that area of life - so it would be nice to know. (it's moving up the priority list for sure though)

I also learned a big running shoe lesson - they have model numbers/series for a reason. I never knew this until I bought a pair that did not provide the support I needed. Price does not always equal what you need either.

[jfrog]

I read where Fila didnt recommend them for running, only casual use but I cant remember the source.

[Ruffdaddy]

Hey, those Africans that chase down animals until they are pooped - run barefooted!

I use shoes - used them when running 45 minute 10Ks (Really hot in Iraq) and will use them for my really slow 5/10K runs now. I tend to side with Ruffdaddy's opinion on personal experience and what the crowd does. (right up until they jump off that damned bridge)

The only question I have for FFC and Ruffdaddy is if you know people who have tried these newer styles and hated them? Or were they folks who generally just stuck with sneakers? I personally don't care either way, I'll be slow in either. I'm just curious for my own purposes. Fitness is not my #1 priority and I don't socialize in that area of life - so it would be nice to know. (it's moving up the priority list for sure though)

I also learned a big running shoe lesson - they have model numbers/series for a reason. I never knew this until I bought a pair that did not provide the support I needed. Price does not always equal what you need either.

I have actually trained barefoot when I was actively competing in the 100m and 200m dash. Since sprinters forefoot strike the entire race, I have had a coach or two suggest it as an OCCASIONAL training technique. Even then it started to cause problems. It was always painful and I eventually had a Dr prescribe me foot supports. [sarcasm]Somehow this idiot Dr knew barefoot running wasn't for everyone [/sarcasm]. And I also have friends that hate their vibrams.

And I am not fast either...well in regards to distance. My fastest 5K is 23:48 and I haven't beat that time in months. I will typically run a 25-26 with ease. I am 40yds fast however.

[Jonny00GT]

I never said you're fat and slow...but if that's what you got out of me pointing out that we're in better shape and have been doing this longer, then I'm sure the title fits. Keep putting words in my mouth and tell me more about your insecurities. The point is... I'm gonna trust someone in good shape much better than someone that isn't even running fast enough to get an injury. Yep that's another huge point - Injuries don't come as often when you're not hitting higher performance numbers. 10min/mi is easy run or active recovery pace, and not enough to obtain many injuries from. Oh wait...that's just years of active track experience coming...not my "research" based on web articles. Probably means nothing. Are you saying research counts for nothing, but being in shape makes one an expert that YOU would trust??? Your words!

The whole fact that you're 38 with that many serious injuries tells me that you know nothing about staying healthy. Seriously man...you shoulda left that out if you want to prove a point about your knowledge of preventing injury. First, when have I ever claimed this as MY knowledge?? Second, I was born in 1972, I learned to play soccer in Holland '78-'81, played league all growing up as well as baseball. I played football, basketball and ran track '96-'90(that's 8th-Senior). I also played league soccer and took martial arts. After HS, I played volleyball, basketball, tennis, racketball, softball and any other sport I could get in on. I was diagnosed with colitis at 23 and fought it for 7yrs. When the meds stopped working and I finally had to give in to surgery, I was 190lbs, 5lbs from a 6pac, working out 5 days a week(every day included 30min elyptical, 1mile run and laps in the pool), playing racketball 2 days a week and I was on 3 indoor soccer teams! My fitness was fine! Even then, in shape and apparently trustworthy, running killed my shins and I hated it!! You ass-u-me a lot...you don't know me, kid!

And me and FFC are FAR from friends. Most of the time we're not agreeing. I just recognize someone that has worked that hard to be in that good of shape. And I'm sick of seeing you think that you know it all because you read a cult classic book about being born to run. YOUR perception, not my opinion! I'm still learning, but what I've learned, I've tested and it works on me.

Lastly, theres a lot wrong with your perception. I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension skills at this point btw. You are literally incapable of reading through full sentences. I was not saying there's a hypocritical conflict between supplements and running barefoot. I was pointing out that it's hypocritical to defend barefoot running with calling it the natural evolution of the foot, and all the bull shit you say about how the body is made to run barefoot. Then you come back and take an aggressive stimulant coctail because apparently the body isn't evolved enough to keep your energy up enough. You choose your cheater, then blast the over marketed shoe companies as the bad guy. Again...you're thinking of someone else. I don't buy into evolution and I've never said anything of the sort.

This is another pointless argument just like with AnthonyS and crossfit. You will only listen to what you want to hear. You will only read the stuff that supports your arguments. At least Anthony isn't a fad exercise jockey. I'm through here until you pull your head out of your own ass to understand there's more to exercise than barefoot jogging.

So you find yourself in this situation a lot?

First let me reiterate my stance on this again. EVERYONE is different, some need more support than others and some people are fine running barefoot. But Barefoor running is NOT for everyone.

"research" about injuries caused by barefoot running:

http://running.competitor.com/2010/05/features/the-barefoot-running-injury-epidemic_10118

100% correct! If you don't learn the proper way to run minimalist, you WILL get hurt! If you have a heal injury, you are NOT running correctly! We lightly touch down the heal...impossible to get injured on your heal that way. Anyone who learns how is told this from day one. Too much too fast leads to strains, bruises, fractures. You've been in a soft foot cast your whole life...you can't just chuck it and go blasting down the road on weak arches, ankles and calves. Just like coming out of a cast, you have to build your leg back up before you try and kick a goal from the half! You see a kung fu flick and wanna go out and break a board and break your hand, does that mean you're not physically suited for martial arts? A quote from your 2nd link: How to run barefoot in shoes: Landing lightly at your midfoot and picking up your foot quickly to start a new stride is the most effective way your body knows to propel and protect itself while running. Conversely, your body generally doesn’t allow you to land on your heel if you’re running barefoot (especially on a hard surface) because it isn’t engineered to accommodate the blunt force trauma of repeated heel striking.

http://www.therunningfront.com/runni...ning-injuries/ I like this one! I don't think you read it! Benefits to barefoot training and you should start slow. I like it!

“Throw your shoes away for good? Sure, if you have perfect mechanics and you’ve been living barefoot all of your life,” says Dr. Mark Cucuzzella, a West Virginia University professor and 2:25 marathoner who has studied barefoot and minimalist runners in relation to running injuries. “But that’s not the majority of runners. Most runners absolutely need to wear shoes when they run.”

Input from doctors showing that it is dependent on the person:

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercis...hed-your-shoes

I don't think you read all of this one either! Did you see there is a pg2 and 3 or no?? Quote: Who should not run barefoot? Anyone who has diabetes, peripheral vascular disease, or who has a compromised immune system -- such as people with HIV or rheumatoid arthritis and those taking drugs that suppress the immune system -- should not run barefoot, Ross notes. Anyone else at risk of infection should not try it either, in Ross' opinion.

As I've already said, and your articles back me up, it's not about what's on your feet...it's about the form!
Enjoy: http://barefootrunners.org/guide/aca...refoot-running

[Jonny00GT]

The point is... I'm gonna trust someone in good shape much better than someone that isn't even running fast enough to get an injury. Yep that's another huge point - Injuries don't come as often when you're not hitting higher performance numbers. 10min/mi is easy run or active recovery pace, and not enough to obtain many injuries from. Oh wait...that's just years of active track experience coming...not my "research" based on web articles. Probably means nothing.

You are literally incapable of reading through full sentences. I was not saying there's a hypocritical conflict between supplements and running barefoot. I was pointing out that it's hypocritical to defend barefoot running with calling it the natural evolution of the foot, and all the bull shit you say about how the body is made to run barefoot. Then you come back and take an aggressive stimulant coctail because apparently the body isn't evolved enough to keep your energy up enough. You choose your cheater, then blast the over marketed shoe companies as the bad guy.

I have actually trained barefoot when I was actively competing in the 100m and 200m dash. Since sprinters forefoot strike the entire race, I have had a coach or two suggest it as an OCCASIONAL training technique. Even then it started to cause problems. It was always painful and I eventually had a Dr prescribe me foot supports. [sarcasm]Somehow this idiot Dr knew barefoot running wasn't for everyone [/sarcasm]. And I also have friends that hate their vibrams.

Let's address a few misconceptions, while we're at this. I hate misinformation floating around. First, your personal experience based "knowledge" that slow runners don't get injuries. Peep this: http://www.sportsmed.org/secure/reve...gging%2008.pdf Speed is only 1 way to get injured. Not my words or me knowing it all. Just because a 10min mile is a recovery run for you, does not mean it is across the board. Recovery speed is personal. The guy that won the first 5K I just ran did it in 15min and some change...perhaps he thinks YOUR blistering 1/4 is recovery run speed. There is always someone faster, bigger, stronger.

Next, do you know what "literally" means?? I've already told you I'm not the naturalist guy, I don't think I know it all, I'm still new at this and only relaying what I've read and worked for me and my wife and that it's not about the shoes but the form, but you Bull on forward cause you don't want to be wrong and you want to "put me in my place". Yet it's MY reading comprehension ability that is in question? I'll say it as clear as I can, I don't buy into evolution, I don't think it's about the shoes, but the form and I'm not twisting anyones arm about trying them. My only contention through this whole thing is, know what you are talking about BEFORE you post and be able to back it up with something the rest of us can see. I don't think this is unreasonable.

Finally, you had 2 coaches recommend barefoot running training, the running coach of Stanford has his runners train barefoot, I read some of the pro-athletes are doing it as well, but some Doc prescribes you an insert? ...for barefoot running?? Did that help the barefoot running your coaches had you doing?? Did the coaches say why they wanted you to run barefoot? Did they have you ease into it? IDK...you're leaving something out there, but you're not the first high school track runner I've seen post about their coaches changing their running style or working without shoes part time. Check out this track star blazing down the track: http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...=IMG_07191.mp4

You know, maybe if you didn't get all pissy and just had a reasonable discussion with facts and resources to back up your opinion instead of making this a competition, it could have gone another way. I'm all for the exchange of information, for or against what I believe. Hell, I believed I needed to spend hundreds on the right shoes or inserts after having someone watch me run for a bit so I could start running without pain, but my research lead me another way, I tested it out, the right way...slowly, easing into it, focusing on my form and I'm thrilled at the results. You're fine the way you run? That's great! You may have perfect form in conventional shoes...I didn't! Not even close! There are plenty of stories of frequent marathon runners going through the same thing.

I do have one last question...any of your running buddies who hate their Vibrams wear a 42 in the KSO and wanna sell them?? I prefer the black or the solid red ones...

-Jonny

[stinginstang]

Some interesting reading from a very knowledgeable source on all things distance running.

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/01/why-running-shoes-do-not-work-looking.html

He's the current Texas High School record Holder in the 1600 at 4:01 and ran collegiately at Rice.

Here's his Bio:

I'm an assistant coach and scientific advisor for the Nike Oregon Project out in Beaverton Oregon where I get to work with some of the top runners in the U.S. I completed my Master's in Exercise Science from George Mason University in 2010.
I have also dabbled in writing, as can be seen in this blog. I've written articles for Running Times magazine, New Studies in Athletics and various scientific peer reviewed journals, including the International Journal of Athletic Training & Therapy.

On a side note, I've seen quite a few High School Cross Country meets over the last couple of years - many with The Woodlands High School competing. They are the Gold standard for distance running in Texas. After their races they run about a mile or so barefoot. They don't run the race barefoot - so take all of that for what it's worth. I'm not putting in the miles you guys are, but I really have no desire to run barefoot as I'm not having any aches and pains from running right now. I do acknowledge that there must be some benefits to running barefoot (correcting heel strikes?).