Middle East conflict explained

[Moose242]

I'll agree that people get caught up in the fodder of war and bad stuff happens to good people (ex. the farmer). However, IMO, Israel treats Palestinians "unfairly" is a direct result of Palestinian and Arab actions. I don't bite that the 6-day war was an illegal action as it was militarily a strategic action for their own preservation. Any and all land Israel seized is a result from Arab aggression. To the winner, the spoils of war. Are you suggesting Texas and the Southwest should be returned to Mexico for similar reasons? And needlessly massacred thousands? How many have the Palestinians killed?

Even of their own?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/12/hamas-reportedly-executing-tunnel-diggers-to-keep-locations-secret/

If you're so concerned about "...how hatred can be bred and expressed irrationally,..." then please start championing the cessation of Palestinian brain washing of their kids to hate Jews.
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I suppose we're going to agree to disagree, though.

So Hitler was right in seizing Poland and the Japs were right to seize Korea/China/Etc because they won the battles?

And believe me, I am more than aware of how Hamas and similar organization use vile brainwashing techniques to turn their youth against Israelis, and I am also painfully aware of how other less direct brainwashing techniques have kept and will continue to keep people like you ignorant of the conflict from a non-Israeli perspective.

Your responses so my statements and queries have been entirely diversionary, but I have some books I can loan you if you want to learn and form an opinion based on primary sources and a smattering of perspectives.

[Baba Ganoush]

Brainwashed? Dude, one side uses suicide bombers and martyrs the perpetrators. This automatically dissolves any empathy to their plight. I don't need a history book to tell me the group that martyrs cowardice acts is the clear enemy to the civilized world, TODAY. Like....as another book is being written, and as we debate this, the enemy is making himself known.


If you for even one second think that Arabs are peaceful, civilized members of the world populace who only want peace and equal treatment of ALL people, you should put the book down and take your ass to that region. Have a blast!

[GhostTX]

So Hitler was right in seizing Poland and the Japs were right to seize Korea/China/Etc because they won the battles?

And believe me, I am more than aware of how Hamas and similar organization use vile brainwashing techniques to turn their youth against Israelis, and I am also painfully aware of how other less direct brainwashing techniques have kept and will continue to keep people like you ignorant of the conflict from a non-Israeli perspective.

Your responses so my statements and queries have been entirely diversionary, but I have some books I can loan you if you want to learn and form an opinion based on primary sources and a smattering of perspectives.

Right or wrong, history is rife with countries taking land from others, but the borders are what we live with today. Again, the victor.

If you want to put a moral equivalency on your example, though...how many rockets (or technologically equivalent for the time period) did Poland lob at German? That Korea/China/Philippines/Guam/etc, lob at Japan? At what point did Poland attack Germany? KCPGe attack Japan? At what point did Poland build armies to invade Germany and KCPGe to invade Japan?

My comments are diversionary? Sorry if facts get in the way of your narrative.

[sc281]

So Hitler was right in seizing Poland and the Japs were right to seize Korea/China/Etc because they won the battles?

And believe me, I am more than aware of how Hamas and similar organization use vile brainwashing techniques to turn their youth against Israelis, and I am also painfully aware of how other less direct brainwashing techniques have kept and will continue to keep people like you ignorant of the conflict from a non-Israeli perspective.

Your responses so my statements and queries have been entirely diversionary, but I have some books I can loan you if you want to learn and form an opinion based on primary sources and a smattering of perspectives.

The difference between these is Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan were massing all around Israel's border TO INVADE.

There were no war plans for the Polish invasion of Germany.
No war plans for Korea and China to invade Japan.

Israel strategy was the same as Sun Tzu's in the wu-chu wars. When faced with a superior force massing around your border, invade and take the fighting to the enemy land, leaving your infrastructure intact for as long as possible.

It was the exact right move at the exact right time, and they had every right to do it.

[sc281]

As far as Israel being the white Knight, almost no one believes that. They've done some pretty shady shit in their never ending war for survival.

Name a country in the world, and there's bound to be a bunch of shady shit done by 'em. It's odd that you seem to hold Israel to a higher standard in your condemnation of clandestine activity. It's pretty much par for the course.

[Moose242]

Brainwashed? Dude, one side uses suicide bombers and martyrs the perpetrators. This automatically dissolves any empathy to their plight. I don't need a history book to tell me the group that martyrs cowardice acts is the clear enemy to the civilized world, TODAY. Like....as another book is being written, and as we debate this, the enemy is making himself known.


If you for even one second think that Arabs are peaceful, civilized members of the world populace who only want peace and equal treatment of ALL people, you should put the book down and take your ass to that region. Have a blast!

Ever read about the Jewish insurgency in Palestine or Irgun? Because you should to combat ignorance.

And who does want peaceful treatment of anyone? Not this board with all the ignorant fuckers saying "fuck all teh muslims!!" on this board who are somehow exempt from the racial/intolerance ban policy. These people are so hypocritical that it boggles the mind.

As far as Israel being the white Knight, almost no one believes that. They've done some pretty shady shit in their never ending war for survival.

Name a country in the world, and there's bound to be a bunch of shady shit done by 'em. It's odd that you seem to hold Israel to a higher standard in your condemnation of clandestine activity. It's pretty much par for the course.

I don't, I just call them out when they do things I disagree with which apparently gets you branded an anti-semite.

When the USA does stupid shit, I call it, when an Arabic nation does the same, I call it, when a Euro country does it, I call it, but when I call out Israel suddenly poor little Israel is totally innocent and it is all them dirty muslim's fault!

Am I the only member of this entire board who does not believe that Muslims are not, by default, bad people?

[LANTIRN]

Doc, no one is claiming Israel has never done anything shady, just like we are not claiming the US has no with slavery, internment camps, indian reservations, etc. The driving factor that seems to unit people against the muslims and for israel is the use of suicide bombers and the murdering of innocents to further their cause. Muslims love killing innocent bystanders; they want to kill for the sake of killing and absolutely don't want peace. They only want jews exterminated, and they don't want peace with any religion. They want you to convert to islam or be dead. That is why most of us are against the muslims. If you can't understand that, then that is probably the end of my involvement in the discussion for now because I really don't know how to explain it more clearly than that.

[line-em-up]

Doc, no one is claiming Israel has never done anything shady, just like we are not claiming the US has no with slavery, internment camps, indian reservations, etc. The driving factor that seems to unit people against the muslims and for israel is the use of suicide bombers and the murdering of innocents to further their cause. Muslims love killing innocent bystanders; they want to kill for the sake of killing and absolutely don't want peace. They only want jews exterminated, and they don't want peace with any religion. They want you to convert to islam or be dead. That is why most of us are against the muslims. If you can't understand that, then that is probably the end of my involvement in the discussion for now because I really don't know how to explain it more clearly than that.

x10 excellent post. At this point, after all of the crap that has gone on the last few years, I don't see how anyone could be a sympathizer of people that want to see others dead for no reason but to see them dead. Nothing offense meant to you DOHCTR.

[Moose242]

So you believe that Muslims are inherently bad people?

[line-em-up]

I wouldn't lump them all in the same boat. That wouldn't be fair, but...

Palestinian Children's Show Teaches Kids To Kill Jews

http://vimeo.com/94676269

Why in the world would you teach your children that? If you don't believe in it, speak up and have it taken off the air.

[Moose242]

Dude, that has been posted before and referenced in this thread and yes, that is terrible.

[Baba Ganoush]

So you believe that Muslims are inherently bad people?

No. Not at all. But in today's climate it seems most bad people are Muslim.

You're right though, I am ignorant to the past grievances, but I see it this way: It's like two belligerent drunk chicks fighting in a bar. They'll re-hash every little shit, scream and go on and on and on....sore vaginas...I don't care, I don't care! Get to the part where you fight or move the fuck on, peacefully. You know bitches fight to the death.

I posted this over-simplified video that someone shared with me, just hoping we can give peace a chance.

[line-em-up]

Dude, that has been posted before and referenced in this thread and yes, that is terrible.

I know. I just can't get over the fact that they teach their children to be so hateful.

[ScottJ]

West Texas. Basically, a philanthropist(s) or investor(s) should acquire land roughly the size of Israel, equip it with solar-farms, and petition our federal government to make it a sovereign land for Israelis to (peacefully) inhabit. In exchange, Israelis could sell their surplus electricity (if any) at a discount to neighboring grids, and/or repay investors over time.

Lets pretend that actually happened.

Within the same life-times of those that migrated, Arabs would be trying to figure out how to erase that chunk of west Texas.

So, its not a regional issue, its a religious disease, that requires sterilizing the planet of another kind of human being.

I often wonder if beings of a higher form hover over our planet, laughing and shaking their heads (or whatever), making bets on which group of which idiots are going to do the next silly thing on our tiny little shared home...I could imagine the conversation's of those beings being like "but they are all basically the same kind of creature, why wouldn't they just all try to pool their resources and advance their collective abilities?"

[GhostTX]

Ever read about the Jewish insurgency in Palestine or Irgun? Because you should to combat ignorance.

And who does want peaceful treatment of anyone? Not this board with all the ignorant fuckers saying "fuck all teh muslims!!" on this board who are somehow exempt from the racial/intolerance ban policy. These people are so hypocritical that it boggles the mind.

I don't, I just call them out when they do things I disagree with which apparently gets you branded an anti-semite.

When the USA does stupid shit, I call it, when an Arabic nation does the same, I call it, when a Euro country does it, I call it, but when I call out Israel suddenly poor little Israel is totally innocent and it is all them dirty muslim's fault!

Am I the only member of this entire board who does not believe that Muslims are not, by default, bad people?

Let me know how these are contradicted, misinterpreted or misrepresented.

Quran:

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them - 8:12

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! - 9:30

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness. - 9:123

And then there's these passages that allow muslims to lie, even under oath, if it furthers the cause of Allah:

" Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89

"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106

Again, feel free to cite where what's being misinterpreted.