Saturday FTP

[03trubluGT]

Old news, family was awarded $6.5M by a federal jury.

http://ktla.com/2013/04/05/verdict-r...#ixzz2YIqz0iif

Thanks for that link.

SANTA ANA, Calif. (KTLA) — The family of a man fatally shot by Long Beach police in 2010 was awarded $6.5 million in damages by a federal jury on Thursday.

Federal juries, like other juries, have no problem paying exorbitant awards. Remember the $2.86M cup of McDonald's coffee??

“The money doesn’t bring my son back, which is all I really want,” Douglas Zerby’s mother, Pam Amici, said after the verdict, chocking back tears.

“I would just rather have Doug standing here next to me right now. But this is all we can hope for, and I’m very happy with the result.”

The jury deliberated for one day before ruling that officers Jeffrey Shurtleff and Victor Ortiz were negligent and used excessive force when Zerby was shot and killed.

And in that split second, if that had been a real gun, those deputies could be dead.

At the time, Zerby, 35, was on a friend’s porch in Belmont Shore, holding a water nozzle that a neighbor thought might be a gun.

He didn't say "I think it's a gun", he said it WAS a gun.

Apparently, unbeknownst to Zerby, police arrived and surrounded the area.

When police say Zerby appeared to be pointing what they thought was a gun toward one of the officer’s positions, police opened fire.

Autopsy results revealed that Zerby was shot 12 times in the chest, arms and lower legs.

That's a lot of rounds......

He had a blood-alcohol level of 0.42% and had Valium and THC in his system at the time of his death.

What was that? 0.42%? Holy cripes that's a LOT of alcohol. He must have been a professional drunk, because most people are not conscious at that level. And do add he had MARIJUANA and Valium? Here we have it folks, this was a pillar to the community.


“The most important thing is they never announced their presence,” said the family’s attorney attorney, Garo Mardirossian.

“They didn’t give him an opportunity to at least cooperate, to do what the officers wanted him to do,” he continued.

Sure, I'm going to give the guy with a gun more time to shoot me. Brilliant!!

“The first time he realized there were cops there is when they shot him, and that just should not happen in America,” he said.

Oh, so now some money grubbing attorney knows EXACTLY what this guy was thinking moments before death?? So, Mr. Attorney, why was he holding a PISTOL GRIP WATER NOZZLE like a gun? Can you answer that????


“I’m happy that we got justice and I’m glad that they got to go home feeling bad for themselves,” River Sentell, Zerby’s now 10-year-old son, said on Thursday.

But Long Beach Police Chief Jim McDonnell, who was in court for the verdict, said he was disappointed by the decision.

He says the officers were cleared in an internal probe and still defends their actions.

Were they cleared by a Grand Jury?

“Their actions, we believe, were in immediate defense of life,” McDonnell said. “That’s the way we judge — based on the circumstances known to them at the time.”

McDonnell said that city attorneys are still evaluating all of their options in terms of a possible appeal in the case.

Sure, they don't want to hand $6.5M of budget to the family of a guy that was making poor life choices. Who was watching his son while he was out boozing, smoking pot and popping Valium???

Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/04/05/verdict-r...#ixzz2YM3HKmOf

LoL at the chief throwing out there that the dbag cops were cleared on an internal investigation. Of course they were! They can articulate a perceived threat then deadly force was authorized.

Dave, are you immune from the decisions you make at work?



Disclaimer: Remember when I said in the Jerry Waller case that just because you are justified in using deadly force, that doesn't mean you SHOULD use deadly force? Same applies here.

[davbrucas]

Nope...but when the triage nurse tells me the person in room 6 is having a heart attack, or stroke, or whatever, I do not take their word for it when I go into the room. I use my judgement...which is what these officers should have done. They should have used caution when approaching this man and identified a weapon before they started shooting. I understand that this isnt always feasible but when a person's life is at stake, better care should be taken when making decisions. I also feel that LEOs, by the nature of their jobs, should have much more stringent ROEs than they have currently...and the penalties for violating these should be swift and severe (criminal). But, that's just my opinion.

[03trubluGT]

Nope...but when the triage nurse tells me the person in room 6 is having a heart attack, or stroke, or whatever, I do not take their word for it when I go into the room. I use my judgement...which is what these officers should have done. They should have used caution when approaching this man and identified a weapon before they started shooting. I understand that this isnt always feasible but when a person's life is at stake, better care should be taken when making decisions. I also feel that LEOs, by the nature of their jobs, should have much more stringent ROEs than they have currently...and the penalties for violating these should be swift and severe (criminal). But, that's just my opinion.

With all due respect, when you walk into that room, you are not going to be facing someone holding a gun on you. You have time to assess the situation and make a safe decision.

What about doctors that remove the wrong appendage/organ? Should they be charged with Aggravated Assault and spend prison time along with being sued civilly? What would the medical profession think about their own spending lengthy prison terms for malpractice? So far they have been immune from criminal charges and just let their malpractice insurance cover their ass.

Now, thinking about this situation, the best thing would have been to set up a concealed perimeter and had someone with binoculars get eyes on this guy. Since he wasn't an immediate threat, there's no reason to rush things. He's not an active shooter (yet). Maybe they could have seen that it wasn't a gun and there would have been a much different outcome. This is what happens when you have the luxury of time. Remember, hindsight is always 20/20.

[mikec]

And fwiw, my cousin is a sergeant on the local force, and his glock has a light on it. So does every other cop gun I've seen in recent history.

And fwiw, my cousin is a sergeant on the local force, and his glock has a light on it. So does every other cop gun I've seen in recent history.

Wanna see my issue Sig P220?

No light.

Wanna know something even funnier?

I was never issued a flashlight.

I carry a Fenix 32PD ultimate edition with 740 lumens.


What now sucker???

Yes, what now? You do, or don't, have a light?

http://www.dfwmustangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45730&highlight=light+cousin

[Broncojohnny]

With all due respect, when you walk into that room, you are not going to be facing someone holding a gun on you. You have time to assess the situation and make a safe decision.

What about doctors that remove the wrong appendage/organ? Should they be charged with Aggravated Assault and spend prison time along with being sued civilly? What would the medical profession think about their own spending lengthy prison terms for malpractice? So far they have been immune from criminal charges and just let their malpractice insurance cover their ass.

Now, thinking about this situation, the best thing would have been to set up a concealed perimeter and had someone with binoculars get eyes on this guy. Since he wasn't an immediate threat, there's no reason to rush things. He's not an active shooter (yet). Maybe they could have seen that it wasn't a gun and there would have been a much different outcome. This is what happens when you have the luxury of time. Remember, hindsight is always 20/20.

Are you going to start that cry baby bullshit again where you start comparing cops to doctors? Doctors save lives every day and when they fuck up, other doctors don't start making up wild science fiction scenarios as to why they might have done the right thing.

[davbrucas]

With all due respect, when you walk into that room, you are not going to be facing someone holding a gun on you. You have time to assess the situation and make a safe decision.

What about doctors that remove the wrong appendage/organ? Should they be charged with Aggravated Assault and spend prison time along with being sued civilly? What would the medical profession think about their own spending lengthy prison terms for malpractice? So far they have been immune from criminal charges and just let their malpractice insurance cover their ass.

Now, thinking about this situation, the best thing would have been to set up a concealed perimeter and had someone with binoculars get eyes on this guy. Since he wasn't an immediate threat, there's no reason to rush things. He's not an active shooter (yet). Maybe they could have seen that it wasn't a gun and there would have been a much different outcome. This is what happens when you have the luxury of time. Remember, hindsight is always 20/20.

Not an unexpected retort...

Just like a soldier volunteering for combat duty, you guys assume the likelihood of injury/death. Yet, a soldier is fighting an enemy whom we couldnt give two shits about. You guys are going against your fellow Americans. All too often, you guys look at civilians as the enemy, and your decisions show that for the most part. I feel that you should not fire upon an American citizen unless fired upon or are in imminent threat of being fired upon...in this case, better judgement should have been used to ascertain whether the guy did have a weapon, as there was no imminent threat..just a perceived one that has given you guys free reign over the life and death of your fellow Americans. If there were consequences for you guys, then there would be much less of these type of killings and police brutality.
As far as my profession...if a physician takes a life knowingly then, yes, he should be punished. There's a big difference between making a mistake that costs a person's life and LEOs decision to kill someone just in case he may have a weapon to protect his own life. I firmly believe that if you kill someone and end up taking a life needlessly, then you should be held accountable...and that is in all professions in this country. JMO again.

And that's not even touching on the fact that you have authority over people and can ruin there lives on a whim...based on how well you articulate your case.

[03trubluGT]

Yes, what now? You do, or don't, have a light?

http://www.dfwmustangs.net/forums/sh...t=light+cousin

I didn't say I didn't have a light, I said I was never issued a light.
Please pay attention...

Are you going to start that cry baby bullshit again where you start comparing cops to doctors? Doctors save lives every day and when they fuck up, other doctors don't start making up wild science fiction scenarios as to why they might have done the right thing.

No, they just back out of the spotlight and let the malpractice insurance take over. Tell me this Alan, how many of those types of cases I mentioned ended up in criminal charges? Come on smart guy, I'm interested.

Not an unexpected retort...

Just like a soldier volunteering for combat duty, you guys assume the likelihood of injury/death.

Just like doctors assume risk of practicing.

Yet, a soldier is fighting an enemy whom we couldnt give two shits about. You guys are going against your fellow Americans. All too often, you guys look at civilians as the enemy, and your decisions show that for the most part.

The bad guys here don't look like bad guys in combat. Just ask Deputy McLain that got his head blown off last week. When it comes to going home, there is a certain amount of need to look like everyone as a threat. If you don't, you end up on the memorial, just like McLain.

I feel that you should not fire upon an American citizen unless fired upon or are in imminent threat of being fired upon...in this case, better judgement should have been used to ascertain whether the guy did have a weapon, as there was no imminent threat..just a perceived one that has given you guys free reign over the life and death of your fellow Americans.

So you are willing to give someone with a gun (either real or percieved) the upper hand to kill you? I seriously don't think so. I already explained the way I would have liked to see this scenario unfold, but it's too late.

If there were consequences for you guys, then there would be much less of these type of killings and police brutality.
As far as my profession...if a physician takes a life knowingly then, yes, he should be punished.

But is he? Is a doctor ever "punished" for just a little mistake that costs life or limb? No, he just gets sued and keeps on trucking....

There's a big difference between making a mistake that costs a person's life and LEOs decision to kill someone just in case he may have a weapon to protect his own life. I firmly believe that if you kill someone and end up taking a life needlessly, then you should be held accountable...and that is in all professions in this country. JMO again.

And that's not even touching on the fact that you have authority over people and can ruin there lives on a whim...based on how well you articulate your case.

So making a simple mistake that you have all the time in the world to think about isn't as bad as perceiving a threat and protecting your own life? Gotcha.

[YALE]

The hot coffee argument is a bad one, as the old lady suing was only suing for part of her medical bills to be reimbursed. The jury decided to award what they did, because McDonald's had a history of keeping coffe way too hot, for no real reason. They'd had over 300 complaints in the same year as her incident, and didn't do anything about it. That's how a tort system is supposed to work. It should be punitive.

[03trubluGT]

The hot coffee argument is a bad one, as the old lady suing was only suing for part of her medical bills to be reimbursed. The jury decided to award what they did, because McDonald's had a history of keeping coffe way too hot, for no real reason. They'd had over 300 complaints in the same year as her incident, and didn't do anything about it. That's how a tort system is supposed to work. It should be punitive.

The taxpayers should not be held to punitive damages.

[LaserSVT]

Fatass

Liar

[YALE]

The taxpayers should not be held to punitive damages.

Fair enough.

[mikec]

I didn't say I didn't have a light, I said I was never issued a light.
Please pay attention...

So why make the dumbass comment to start with Matt? I said cops used lights, you came in acting like you didn't. Asshole move when it turns out that you do, indeed, use a light.

[03trubluGT]

So why make the dumbass comment to start with Matt? I said cops used lights, you came in acting like you didn't. Asshole move when it turns out that you do, indeed, use a light.

A little testy are we?

The person inferred that all police have weapon mounted lights when in fact that is not true. Hell, I know some dayshift officers that don't even carry a flashlight.

[talisman]

I love it when people bring up that McDonald's coffee BS. Go take a look at the pictures of what that coffee did to that woman and then get back with me. Before you do the search, grab a barf bag.

[Trip McNeely]