Gen V is here

[Baron Von Crowder]

A mod motor has considerably more material, casting, milling, and tool hours than an LS motor.

and? They built one that fit like 7 model lines for 6 years. No retooling costs, etc for that longblock.

It costs money to develop those, but actual production costs are relatively low in large numbers. We are talking about producing millions of 4.6 longblocks without changing much if anything over that production. The 5.4 was the same way for a long period as well in trucks. There are a couple changes and lines, but largely the same.


Gm had the 4.8, 5.3, and those were only in the truck/full framed SUV's. Plus the 6.0. They have differnet heads, intakes, etc.

Id put money down that GM's spent more in development,tooling and actual production costs because of that.

I guess HP numbers are cool when you have the government paying for it.

[CJ]

and? They built one that fit like 7 model lines for 6 years. No retooling costs, etc for that longblock.

It costs money to develop those, but actual production costs are relatively low in large numbers. We are talking about producing millions of 4.6 longblocks without changing much if anything over that production. The 5.4 was the same way for a long period as well in trucks. There are a couple changes and lines, but largely the same.


Gm had the 4.8, 5.3, and those were only in the truck/full framed SUV's. Plus the 6.0. They have differnet heads, intakes, etc.

Id put money down that GM's spent more in development,tooling and actual production costs because of that.

I guess HP numbers are cool when you have the government paying for it.

I'm merely stating fact. You're theorizing, which could be right, I've never see their production sheets. Changing casting is cheap, machining is much more expensive. I would presume ford's motors are more expensive because not only are they more complex to machine, they have more parts.

[quikag]

Man, I'd be SHOCKED if the mod motor was cheaper to produce on a variable cost basis per unit than the LS motor. Mod motor has more parts, bigger dimensions, i.e. more material, more complexity, etc.

GM spends quite a bit each generation on development and engineering costs, but I bet the unit cost including the development and engineering costs amortized over millions of engines per generation is CHEAP.

[Cooter]

Pushrods and a pair of valves coming to fuck you in teh fayce!

[CJ]

Man, I'd be SHOCKED if the mod motor was cheaper to produce on a variable cost basis per unit than the LS motor. Mod motor has more parts, bigger dimensions, i.e. more material, more complexity, etc.

GM spends quite a bit each generation on development and engineering costs, but I bet the unit cost including the development and engineering costs amortized over millions of engines per generation is CHEAP.

Tooling wears at the same rate, so the amount of machining passes and paths have a huge effect on production costs, as does material. So when you have a motor with less material, less machining, and less parts I really do not see retooling really playing that big of an affect on it. In some cases that's definitely true, holding to a design, R&D comes into play, etc, etc.. but I just don't think that is recouped because it seems to me the unit cost of a mod motor would be considerably higher based on the above things.

[Mach1]

paired with the fact that GM purchased all the LS tooling from fords SBF line, it was a bargain!

[Baron Von Crowder]

Tooling wears at the same rate, so the amount of machining passes and paths have a huge effect on production costs, as does material. So when you have a motor with less material, less machining, and less parts I really do not see retooling really playing that big of an affect on it. In some cases that's definitely true, holding to a design, R&D comes into play, etc, etc.. but I just don't think that is recouped because it seems to me the unit cost of a mod motor would be considerably higher based on the above things.

Per unit I'm sure the cost is higher. I wont argue that at all. I will argue that r&d plus setup of product tion and retooling multiple times for less actual production numbers will eat that savings up plus some.

And lets not forget, GM doesn't have an ls that crosses over from truck line to car line as only a longblock. Ford did, ex the mustang/crown Vic/expedition/explorer/pickup etc.if you can use that same r&d to make it once, it takes a hell of a lot of Cam gears to make up the money saved.

[CJ]

Per unit I'm sure the cost is higher. I wont argue that at all. I will argue that r&d plus setup of product tion and retooling multiple times for less actual production numbers will eat that savings up plus some.

And lets not forget, GM doesn't have an ls that crosses over from truck line to car line as only a longblock. Ford did, ex the mustang/crown Vic/expedition/explorer/pickup etc.if you can use that same r&d to make it once, it takes a hell of a lot of Cam gears to make up the money saved.

Well, retooling for injected molding is really pretty cheap in the big scheme of things, so that's takes off all the intake changes. I think with the amount of units ford sells, and the unit cost being more, I would assume it's probably in the hundreds of millions in price differential between Ford and GM. That would be pretty interesting to see the numbers on, maybe R&D would outweigh it, but I can't imagine it would. Even $100 per unit cost would be astronomical in comparison.

[Baron Von Crowder]

Well, retooling for injected molding is really pretty cheap in the big scheme of things, so that's takes off all the intake changes. I think with the amount of units ford sells, and the unit cost being more, I would assume it's probably in the hundreds of millions in price differential between Ford and GM.

Is there hair to hang onto or do you just grab a skin fold?

[CJ]

Is there hair to hang onto or do you just grab a skin fold?

I'm sorry I assume that's some comment disagreeing with what I said. Oh I get it, you're calling me a nut hugger. No, not really. I've had far more mustangs than chevy's, and I drive a ford now. I'm just working it out logically.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I'm sorry I assume that's some comment disagreeing with what I said. Oh I get it, you're calling me a nut hugger. No, not really. I've had far more mustangs than chevy's, and I drive a ford now. I'm just working it out logically.

Oh no you have converted me, and now I want to know how swinging from the ls's nuts works.

[CJ]

Oh no you have converted me, and now I want to know how swinging from the ls's nuts works.

It's a really interesting question, so I'm pretty excited to delve into the depths of it because I've never thought about it before. I am immune to ford/chevy nuthugging trolls. I am the automotive Nelson Mandela.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I'm not sure that we will ever get anything close to true numbers. According to this article, Ford dropped 10 million just on the SVT engine building line. That's just building and fixtures.

http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2005/10/when_factory_au_1.html?WT.mc_t=imt&WT.mc_n=site_entry