ZL1/GT500 on same dyno

[46Tbird]

I don't think so, i think before it is all said and done at year end 2012 you will be able to buy the GT500 for much lower than MSRP. I'm betting it will be right around $50K for a basic one without all the navigation and other bullshit that only women would want.

They're going to make 2000 of them, and it's the last car that Carroll Shelby had a hand in developing. Supply and demand will keep the prices high. If you're able to con a dealer into selling one for at or under MSRP, then jump on it because I just don't think this car's value is going to drop anytime soon.

EVERYONE is talking about how they want to buy one, this is their dream car, etc... that is the telltale sign that this will forever be a good collectible car.

[Steve]

With all the packages and recaro's, the GT500 is $65k. ZL1 come with everything stock. If the ZL1 sells at a $5k discount eventually (or now?), then that is the $15k diff.

Very interesting thread on the Vette board:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3047311-how-will-our-505hp-zs-stack-up-against-the-13-662hp-shelby-43.html

In short, guy with catback only '09 Z06 ran his buddy's new '13 GT500 (buddy also used to own a C6 Z06) and from 70-170+mph, cars were within half a car. Trap speed averages kind of prove this out. Extra horsepower of GT500 is offset a bit by weight and aerodynamics against the C6 Z06.

Also interesting comment from GM:

Camaro Nation:

As you know, the blogs lit up with the announcement of the new 650-horsepower Mustang GT500, and I wanted to give you my perspective on the latest challenge from Dearborn.

The Mustang has been playing catch up since the moment the fifth-gen Camaro arrived in 2009. Since then, Camaro has been the best-selling sports car in America, indicating that consumers know which car offers the best performance, style and safety.

It is no coincidence that Mustang has introduced three 100-horsepower increases to keep pace with Camaro: First their V-6 was bumped to 305; then their V-8 went to 412, and now the GT500.

Even with the 100-hp increase, the 2013 GT500 will still not match the technology and sophistication of the 2012 Camaro ZL1.

The days of “no replacement for displacement,” are over, and it’s not enough to be fast in a straight line. With the Camaro ZL1, we set out to deliver integrated performance, and be equally good at acceleration, braking, grip, and turning. As you will soon see, that’s why the Camaro ZL1 will set the performance benchmark for the segment.

Our approach was to make every Camaro ZL1 fully track-capable, from the factory. As we announced today, the ZL1 Coupe will start at $54,995 with standard Magnetic Ride Control, standard Performance Traction Management, and standard track-capable equipment such as a rear-differential cooler, brake cooling ducts, and an engine and transmission cooler.

None of our customers will have to buy extra options – or modify their ZL1 – for track-day usage. That is not the case for the current GT500, or their new car.

For Mustang fans, you’re welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us.

For Camaro fans, trust me, we are always listening to your feedback, and working hard to keep the Camaro in the lead.

Al O.

You're splitting hairs with that arguement. Not everyone wants all the gadgets and gizmos. A 2013 GT500 can be bought for $4k more than the ZL1, end of story.


At the end of it all, both cars are badass. It just comes down to personal preference between the two. Even if there was a $15k difference, it would be worth it to me because in my opinion, the Camaro isnt as attractive as the GT500 inside or out (it's got one of the ugliest interiors I have ever seen) , nor does it sound as good and let's not forget the Camaro has horrible blindspots to boot.

[46Tbird]

A Z06 weighs 670lbs less than a 2013 shelby. I don't find any surprises in those results.

No kidding. Frankly I'm surprised to see the GT500 able to beat it. That 70-170 bullshit is Vette territory.

[talisman]

100/.85 = 117.65

495/.85 = 582.35

595/.85 = 700.0

700 - 582.35 = 117.65

lol! Prick!

[oh1bullitt]

It was a tongue in cheek comment. Ford did kick GM's ZL1 a** with this new GT500. Good thing is you will be able to get loaded ZL1's for $50k all day long here pretty quick (if not already) and the comparably equipped GT500 is mid 60's. So, $15k difference. Clearly GM is going to have to compete on price as performance (at least straight line) is clearly in Ford's favor.

I cannot wait for the magazine comparison tests to come in. I think the ZL1 will be competitive on a road course, but straight line is a blood bath at this point.

Fox body and $50k [/thread]

[Steve]

They're going to make 2000 of them, and it's the last car that Carroll Shelby had a hand in developing. Supply and demand will keep the prices high. If you're able to con a dealer into selling one for at or under MSRP, then jump on it because I just don't think this car's value is going to drop anytime soon.

EVERYONE is talking about how they want to buy one, this is their dream car, etc... that is the telltale sign that this will forever be a good collectible car.

Hameedi said they would build as many as they had orders for and are not limited to 2000 units.

[Broncojohnny]

They're going to make 2000 of them, and it's the last car that Carroll Shelby had a hand in developing. Supply and demand will keep the prices high. If you're able to con a dealer into selling one for at or under MSRP, then jump on it because I just don't think this car's value is going to drop anytime soon.

EVERYONE is talking about how they want to buy one, this is their dream car, etc... that is the telltale sign that this will forever be a good collectible car.

They can always add production. As for the all the swinging dicks who are talking about them, talk is cheap. It is an entirely different thing to actually write out the check to make a deal on a $60K car happen. Furthermore, wait until the pictures of the redesigned 2014 car come out, the sheep will be enchanted with the next big thing and tend to forget about last year's gt500. It will end up like the 2003 Cobra, IE highly sought after for people who want to modify it, besides that no one will really care.

[CJ]

No kidding. Frankly I'm surprised to see the GT500 able to beat it. That 70-170 bullshit is Vette territory.

Likewise. Whenever I run 03 cobras which I'm neck and neck with the moment we hit 100mph I start pulling away. Goes to show how versatile the new shelby is.

[Steve]

They can always add production. As for the all the swinging dicks who are talking about them, talk is cheap. It is an entirely different thing to actually write out the check to make a deal on a $60K car happen. Furthermore, wait until the pictures of the redesigned 2014 car come out, the sheep will be enchanted with the next big thing and tend to forget about last year's gt500. It will end up like the 2003 Cobra, IE highly sought after for people who want to modify it, besides that no one will really care.

Very solid points.

[quikag]

They can always add production. As for the all the swinging dicks who are talking about them, talk is cheap. It is an entirely different thing to actually write out the check to make a deal on a $60K car happen. Furthermore, wait until the pictures of the redesigned 2014 car come out, the sheep will be enchanted with the next big thing and tend to forget about last year's gt500. It will end up like the 2003 Cobra, IE highly sought after for people who want to modify it, besides that no one will really care.

The next best thing is always right around the corner. Remember, the LSA has been around since 2009 with the CTS-V. So, in 2013 MY, Ford finally comes out with an engine that beats the LSA. Honestly, Ford is almost always behind the 8 ball with their powertrains IMO. This engine is finally a step ahead of GM's comparable offering. I know we can talk about the '03/'04 Termi as being a competitive engine, but overall the 4.6 Mustang was a complete dog and was for many, many years. Crap, '96 Mustang 4.6 all the way to what last year for the new 5.0 to come out? Only time the Mustang was ahead of the Camaro in the last 15+ years is when GM stopped building the Camaro after 2002.

I love competition. I've put my money where my mouth is with my Vette and CTS and I love them both. I'm very happy to see Ford and Dodge fighting hard. There is no doubt Ford is going to take this blown 5.8 and throw it in their next supercar. Dodge's new Viper is looking great. Heck, their 6.4 Hemi is a sweet engine too. Dodge needs a lighter sports car to drop it into IMO.

I love it nowadays. Still remember being younger and stressing out whether there would be cool cars to buy when I was old enough to have a job and buy them. Glad that stress was unwarranted.

[whitetrash]

I don't think so, i think before it is all said and done at year end 2012 you will be able to buy the GT500 for much lower than MSRP. I'm betting it will be right around $50K for a basic one without all the navigation and other bullshit that only women would want.

ill respectfully disagree based on the last few cobras/gt500s history. they have pulled more than MSRP for a solid year as i recall. in fact people shat bricks when being able to pay MSRP

[Broncojohnny]

The next best thing is always right around the corner. Remember, the LSA has been around since 2009 with the CTS-V. So, in 2013 MY, Ford finally comes out with an engine that beats the LSA. Honestly, Ford is almost always behind the 8 ball with their powertrains IMO. This engine is finally a step ahead of GM's comparable offering. I know we can talk about the '03/'04 Termi as being a competitive engine, but overall the 4.6 Mustang was a complete dog and was for many, many years. Crap, '96 Mustang 4.6 all the way to what last year for the new 5.0 to come out? Only time the Mustang was ahead of the Camaro in the last 15+ years is when GM stopped building the Camaro after 2002.

I love competition. I've put my money where my mouth is with my Vette and CTS and I love them both. I'm very happy to see Ford and Dodge fighting hard. There is no doubt Ford is going to take this blown 5.8 and throw it in their next supercar. Dodge's new Viper is looking great. Heck, their 6.4 Hemi is a sweet engine too. Dodge needs a lighter sports car to drop it into IMO.

I love it nowadays. Still remember being younger and stressing out whether there would be cool cars to buy when I was old enough to have a job and buy them. Glad that stress was unwarranted.

It is because the Mustang tends to outsell the Camaro. Why do they need to try hard when they can just mail it in and still sell more? Recent years have seen that situation change to some degree and you see what Ford did to respond.

I still say the base Corvette coupe is the best car you can buy for the money. That is kind of my bottom line on this whole argument of money versus all around performance. It's like a sore dick, you just can't beat it. lol

[Broncojohnny]

ill respectfully disagree based on the last few cobras/gt500s history. they have pulled more than MSRP for a solid year as i recall. in fact people shat bricks when being able to pay MSRP

You could buy a new 2012 for $4k less than MSRP any day on ebay for the past year. I been watching them for quite a while.

[whitetrash]

You could buy a new 2012 for $4k less than MSRP any day on ebay for the past year. I been watching them for quite a while.

my apolagies i miss said that. any new production. ie the 2003
, 2005 or 7 whichever it slipps my mind. ect

[Broncojohnny]

my apolagies i miss said that. any new production. ie the 2003
, 2005 or 7 whichever it slipps my mind. ect

Oh I gotcha. Absolutely you are right about that. Idiots were paying stupid money. I don't see that with the 2013 yet. The first few cars on ebay were stupid, at $80K but there have been a few on there in the $60k range which isn't much more than MSRP with nav and the fancy suspension option.