ZL1/GT500 on same dyno

[Steve]

PS - my stock '12 GT was quicker in the 1/4 than a new auto ZL1 last Friday.

Nice!

[CJ]

Hahahaa. C'mon man, this is a huge embarrassment for GM. They had all this hype, all this drama, all this technology, and finally put a blower on the big bad pushrod V8. And before they can even get the cars sold, Ford comes down and outdraws them to the tune of another 100hp and steals ALL their thunder... lol.

You know there are Ford execs that can't wipe the grin off their face. I'm sure GM will come back with more, there is still a 427 option out there and even bigger blowers. I like the ZL1 but this is always going to be remembered as a major win for Ford.

PS - my stock '12 GT was quicker in the 1/4 than a new auto ZL1 last Friday.

It's more than just 100hp, it's 100hp at the rear wheels. At that kind of output that motor is making 150hp more at the flywheel. That's annihilation. With the weight difference there is no question the ZL1 is obsoleted before it hit the dealer floor.

[46Tbird]

Nice!

...and I was .3 and 2mph off my best eighth mile time.

[diablo rojo]

Noice!! Awesome job Ford.

[quikag]

Hahahaa. C'mon man, this is a huge embarrassment for GM. They had all this hype, all this drama, all this technology, and finally put a blower on the big bad pushrod V8. And before they can even get the cars sold, Ford comes down and outdraws them to the tune of another 100hp and steals ALL their thunder... lol.

You know there are Ford execs that can't wipe the grin off their face. I'm sure GM will come back with more, there is still a 427 option out there and even bigger blowers. I like the ZL1 but this is always going to be remembered as a major win for Ford.

PS - my stock '12 GT was quicker in the 1/4 than a new auto ZL1 last Friday.

It was a tongue in cheek comment. Ford did kick GM's ZL1 a** with this new GT500. Good thing is you will be able to get loaded ZL1's for $50k all day long here pretty quick (if not already) and the comparably equipped GT500 is mid 60's. So, $15k difference. Clearly GM is going to have to compete on price as performance (at least straight line) is clearly in Ford's favor.

I cannot wait for the magazine comparison tests to come in. I think the ZL1 will be competitive on a road course, but straight line is a blood bath at this point.

[46Tbird]

Good thing is you will be able to get loaded ZL1's for $50k all day long here pretty quick (if not already) and the comparably equipped GT500 is mid 60's. So, $15k difference.

I think the price disparity is going to be more than that at some point, with ZL1s going for less and GT500s for more.

[slow99]

it's more than just 100hp, it's 100hp at the rear wheels. At that kind of output that motor is making 150hp more at the flywheel. That's annihilation. With the weight difference there is no question the zl1 is obsoleted before it hit the dealer floor.

100/.85 = 117.65

495/.85 = 582.35

595/.85 = 700.0

700 - 582.35 = 117.65

[46Tbird]

math

lol

[quikag]

I think the price disparity is going to be more than that at some point, with ZL1s going for less and GT500s for more.

If that's the case, then the ZL1 will still sell quite well. The LSA can be juiced to some pretty solid power and the rest of the ZL1 package is pretty nice overall. For the $15k difference, you can do a lot to the ZL1.

I know that's a ghetto argument, but I'm not trying to argue the fact the GT500 is a superior stock vehicle. That is hard to dispute at this point. It's just that in the real world, you'll have some money to play with buying the ZL1 and doing further mods versus the GT500. Of course, warranty issues come into play whereas you get a solid 600rwhp right at the start with a 5yr/60k factory warranty with the GT500. That is worth something obviously.

Still pretty cool that the ZL1 is being bagged as a low power POS when it still makes nearly 500rwhp right off the dealership floor. Pretty awesome times we are living in as car enthusiasts.

[CJ]

100/.85 = 117.65

495/.85 = 582.35

595/.85 = 700.0

700 - 582.35 = 117.65

meh, don't care enough to do the math.

[Zfan]

I am a Chevy guy but must admit not only did the Mustang (Shelby) put up better numbers but it sounded so much better, especially in the upper rpm's.

[Steve]

If that's the case, then the ZL1 will still sell quite well. The LSA can be juiced to some pretty solid power and the rest of the ZL1 package is pretty nice overall. For the $15k difference, you can do a lot to the ZL1.

I know that's a ghetto argument, but I'm not trying to argue the fact the GT500 is a superior stock vehicle. That is hard to dispute at this point. It's just that in the real world, you'll have some money to play with buying the ZL1 and doing further mods versus the GT500. Of course, warranty issues come into play whereas you get a solid 600rwhp right at the start with a 5yr/60k factory warranty with the GT500. That is worth something obviously.

Still pretty cool that the ZL1 is being bagged as a low power POS when it still makes nearly 500rwhp right off the dealership floor. Pretty awesome times we are living in as car enthusiasts.

Where are you getting the $15k figure from? The GT500 base price is $54k and I know that can be had with some shopping around since one of my training partners just got back from west Texas with his for $55k.

[quikag]

With all the packages and recaro's, the GT500 is $65k. ZL1 come with everything stock. If the ZL1 sells at a $5k discount eventually (or now?), then that is the $15k diff.

Very interesting thread on the Vette board:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3047311-how-will-our-505hp-zs-stack-up-against-the-13-662hp-shelby-43.html

In short, guy with catback only '09 Z06 ran his buddy's new '13 GT500 (buddy also used to own a C6 Z06) and from 70-170+mph, cars were within half a car. Trap speed averages kind of prove this out. Extra horsepower of GT500 is offset a bit by weight and aerodynamics against the C6 Z06.

Also interesting comment from GM:

Camaro Nation:

As you know, the blogs lit up with the announcement of the new 650-horsepower Mustang GT500, and I wanted to give you my perspective on the latest challenge from Dearborn.

The Mustang has been playing catch up since the moment the fifth-gen Camaro arrived in 2009. Since then, Camaro has been the best-selling sports car in America, indicating that consumers know which car offers the best performance, style and safety.

It is no coincidence that Mustang has introduced three 100-horsepower increases to keep pace with Camaro: First their V-6 was bumped to 305; then their V-8 went to 412, and now the GT500.

Even with the 100-hp increase, the 2013 GT500 will still not match the technology and sophistication of the 2012 Camaro ZL1.

The days of “no replacement for displacement,” are over, and it’s not enough to be fast in a straight line. With the Camaro ZL1, we set out to deliver integrated performance, and be equally good at acceleration, braking, grip, and turning. As you will soon see, that’s why the Camaro ZL1 will set the performance benchmark for the segment.

Our approach was to make every Camaro ZL1 fully track-capable, from the factory. As we announced today, the ZL1 Coupe will start at $54,995 with standard Magnetic Ride Control, standard Performance Traction Management, and standard track-capable equipment such as a rear-differential cooler, brake cooling ducts, and an engine and transmission cooler.

None of our customers will have to buy extra options – or modify their ZL1 – for track-day usage. That is not the case for the current GT500, or their new car.

For Mustang fans, you’re welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us.

For Camaro fans, trust me, we are always listening to your feedback, and working hard to keep the Camaro in the lead.

Al O.

[Broncojohnny]

I think the price disparity is going to be more than that at some point, with ZL1s going for less and GT500s for more.

I don't think so, i think before it is all said and done at year end 2012 you will be able to buy the GT500 for much lower than MSRP. I'm betting it will be right around $50K for a basic one without all the navigation and other bullshit that only women would want.

[CJ]

With all the packages and recaro's, the GT500 is $65k. ZL1 come with everything stock. If the ZL1 sells at a $5k discount eventually (or now?), then that is the $15k diff.

Very interesting thread on the Vette board:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3047311-how-will-our-505hp-zs-stack-up-against-the-13-662hp-shelby-43.html

In short, guy with catback only '09 Z06 ran his buddy's new '13 GT500 (buddy also used to own a C6 Z06) and from 70-170+mph, cars were within half a car. Trap speed averages kind of prove this out. Extra horsepower of GT500 is offset a bit by weight and aerodynamics against the C6 Z06.

A Z06 weighs 670lbs less than a 2013 shelby. I don't find any surprises in those results.