P-51 Crashes !!

[Randy]

My cousin and Uncle were literally 100 feet from the crash. They hit the deck right before impact. A woman was killed 20 feet from them. Terrible situation.

might have been my aunt.... in-laws side. husband was hurt badly but survived.

[talisman]

Yep, Danny and I were almost at this airshow on our trip, the day that this happened. When we were in Carson City we found out it was going on, but logistics just didn't work to backtrack once we were in Bonneville, so we headed south instead. Pretty nuts. I think Danny even has a brochure from the show that we got at the motel we were staying at.

[CJ]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=609_1316412521

This is a view I don't think has been posted yet. Completely shows you what happened. Damn he hit the ground hauling ass. Seems like the plane pitched up when the trim tab broke free and It seems (to me) that the pilot might not have been conscious, could very well have just been the absence of the trim tab that cause him to corkscrew and appear to pull up. Fast forward to 3:00.

[CJ]

I don't even hear what I would presume would be his throttle being cut, sounded like he was wide open when he impacted.

[helosailor]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=609_1316412521

This is a view I don't think has been posted yet. Completely shows you what happened. Damn he hit the ground hauling ass. Seems like the plane pitched up when the trim tab broke free and It seems (to me) that the pilot might not have been conscious, could very well have just been the absence of the trim tab that cause him to corkscrew and appear to pull up. Fast forward to 3:00.

He could have very well had a gray-out, or possibly even a brief Gloc (G-induced loss of consciousness). The trim tabs on many aircraft are somewhat insignificant in size. On that particular plane, they are comparatively enormous in comparison to the size of the flight control surface they are on. The loss or even partial failure of that almost certainly would throw the plane into a sudden, violent and barely (if at all) controllable corkscrew at the kind of speed he was travelling.

[ZYouL8R]

He could have very well had a gray-out, or possibly even a brief Gloc (G-induced loss of consciousness). The trim tabs on many aircraft are somewhat insignificant in size. On that particular plane, they are comparatively enormous in comparison to the size of the flight control surface they are on. The loss or even partial failure of that almost certainly would throw the plane into a sudden, violent and barely (if at all) controllable corkscrew at the kind of speed he was travelling.

Losing the trim tab itself has no affect on the flyability of a plane. It's what happens to the elevator when you lose the trim tab. The only thing the trim tab does is keeps the elevator at a certain angle to relieve control pressures for a certain airspeed.

At 450KIAS, the nose down trim would be substantial. So that means the elevator is at a pretty extreme (relatively) down angle and the trim tab is keeping it in place. Now imagine losing the trim tab at that point. The elevator would violently go from down to at a minimum, aligned into the wind. This would make the aircraft pitch up violently. The instantaneous G would be enough to make a 70-year old G-loc IMO.

[helosailor]

Losing the trim tab itself has no affect on the flyability of a plane. It's what happens to the elevator when you lose the trim tab. The only thing the trim tab does is keeps the elevator at a certain angle to relieve control pressures for a certain airspeed.

At 450KIAS, the nose down trim would be substantial. So that means the elevator is at a pretty extreme (relatively) down angle and the trim tab is keeping it in place. Now imagine losing the trim tab at that point. The elevator would violently go from down to at a minimum, aligned into the wind. This would make the aircraft pitch up violently. The instantaneous G would be enough to make a 70-year old G-loc IMO.

No argument there, you're right on the money. I may have misspoken myself a little. On most aircraft (fixed and rotary wing), the trim tab is so small in relationship to the control surface that the loss of one is barely noticeable at best. They are what they are, tabs to trim (fine tune) the control surface in question. The P-51 (or at least that P-51) had trim tabs that were huge in comparison to the rest of the control surface. That dramatic of a change in control surface area would be a huge problem.

[CJ]

Losing the trim tab itself has no affect on the flyability of a plane. It's what happens to the elevator when you lose the trim tab. The only thing the trim tab does is keeps the elevator at a certain angle to relieve control pressures for a certain airspeed.

At 450KIAS, the nose down trim would be substantial. So that means the elevator is at a pretty extreme (relatively) down angle and the trim tab is keeping it in place. Now imagine losing the trim tab at that point. The elevator would violently go from down to at a minimum, aligned into the wind. This would make the aircraft pitch up violently. The instantaneous G would be enough to make a 70-year old G-loc IMO.

exactly what I think happened. And the idea of him trying to pull up was just the planes lift on the wings at that speed, he probably wasn't even there for the crash.

[Strychnine]

Update posted on another site, cant find a link to verify though.

More Galloping Ghost analysis

Good News for the future of air racing.

Our new crew member, Matt Jackson, is not only a race pilot, aircraft business owner, and aircraft owner (he also takes care of Tom Cruise's P-51), but he is also the VP of the Unlimited Racing Class and head of the Safety Committee.

We had a long talk about the Reno crash on the way to Mojave today.

Matt believes the cause of the crash was due to The Galloping Ghost having a CG too close to the aft limit which resulted in pitch instability. There are instructions on the P-51 regarding no combat missions with the aft fuel tank full resulting in an aft CG problem. Instructions specify to empty the aft fuel tank first in flight.

During qualifying Matt watched Galloping Ghost from inside the cockpit of Furias and could not believe how much trouble Leeward was having in keeping the Ghost in a stable pattern around the course.

Since Leeward lives in Florida and the Galloping Ghost was modified for racing in Calif., when Leeward picked up the Ghost for the Reno races at the last minute, a complete flight test program had not been done based on available information.

There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to 'dig in' resulting in a 10+G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH aileron trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident.

Since the Ghost was racing at 480 mph with full right rudder and the stick full right, this is where everything stayed when Leeward blacked out.
Cockpit camera film that was salvaged from the wreck shows Leeward slumped over to the right in the cockpit. As a result, the Ghost climbed up and to the right, rolled over on her back, and then headed for the box seats. Most in the box seats never saw it coming because it came in from behind them.

Matt has had long conversations with the NTSB who call the accident a 'fluke'. They are not going to recommend canceling future races. He has also talked to the insurance companies covering the races for Reno and they also say they are not going to cancel their coverage of future races. Now we wait for the FAA to make a decision.

Ironically, Matt bought box seats tickets for his good friends who stayed with him for a few days before the races. They were the husband and wife who were killed.

Thank You for choosing
Bobby's Aero Services
1641 Sessums Dr .
Redlands , Ca 92374
(909)534-7675

[racrguy]

It's a sad deal for sure, but I'm glad there's no knee jerk reaction to it canceling all of the air races.

[ceyko]

Sad about his friends and anyone else who died there. At least the pilot never knew what happened.

I'm not real good at understanding all the terms. I can definitely research though if no one wants to explain. What I'm getting out of it, was that it was technical a pilot error that caused him to black out - after a perfect storm of problems?

[talisman]

Kind of pisses me off, that they hadn't done any testing on this aircraft before entering it in a race with a large crowd of spectators nearby. It really hits home considering I could have been in that crowd that day.

[blownragtop]

Essentially they modified the aircraft without conducting a thorough flight evaluation. The aircraft was inherently unstable and when the plane encountered turbulence the pilot lost control leading to a sudden climb. That maneuver caused the pilot to experience a g-induced black out.

[blownragtop]

Odd, given the history of the aircraft, that they would be so casual about modifications. When the fuselage tanks were introduced, Mustang pilots were ripping the tails off trying to dogfight with full tanks. Hence the SOP that the article mentions of emptying that tank first.

[aggie97]

I guess I sort of called the blackout...sad all around though.

As for the surprise about not testing....I see it ALL too often in our road racing series. I would say at least 1/2 the field of 120 cars gets prepped in the week before the race and never tested. People who pay shops to get their stuff done are the worst as they expect the shop to be on the ball. Most of the time, the shop knows they have till Day X to get it done and wait till the last minute to get it done, usually scrambling for parts or half assing something together. I have seen fires, suspension failures, engine failures and more all costing the driver the weekend and a lot of money, sometimes even a whole car if it gets written off.

Basically, if you aren't 100% sure it's ready, you made the mistake of testing it live!