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  • Shit storm spreading to Saudis

    A little under the radar today, with the japan stuff... Hopefully the unrest doesn't get too bad in S.A.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42013013...deastn_africa/

    Saudi police opened fire Thursday to disperse a protest in the mainly Shiite, oil-producing east, leaving at least three people injured, as the government struggled to prevent a wave of unrest sweeping the Arab world from reaching the kingdom.

    Word of the protest helped drive oil prices back up on international markets.
    The rare violence raised concern about a crackdown ahead of planned protests after Friday prayers in different cities throughout the oil-rich kingdom. Violence there could reverberate through the world's markets because of the importance of Saudi oil exports.

    Discord is common between authorities and the country's Shiites, who make up 10 percent of the kingdom's 23 million citizens. They have long complained of discrimination, saying they are barred from key positions in the military and government and are not given an equal share of the country's wealth.

    Eyeing rising discontent across the Middle East and North Africa, Saudi authorities are increasingly determined to prevent the unrest from spreading to other cities.

    Saudi security forces have deployed around the capital of Riyadh on the eve of planned protests calling for democratic reforms.

    Witnesses reported Thursday seeing riot police and special forces with batons and tear gas canisters, particularly around shopping malls and main roads.
    The pro-Western monarchy is concerned protests could open footholds for Shiite powerhouse Iran and has accused foreigners of stoking the protests, which are officially forbidden.

    Despite the ban and a warning that security forces will act against them, protesters demanding the release of political prisoners took to the streets for a second day in the eastern city of Qatif.

    Several hundred protesters, some wearing masks to avoid being identified, marched after dark asking for "Freedom for prisoners."

    Police, who were lined up opposite the protesters, fired percussion bombs followed by gunfire, causing the crowd to scatter, a witness said, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.

    A spokesman for the Saudi Interior Ministry said police fired over the heads of the crowd after they attacked a police officer who was documenting the protest, and said two protesters and a police officer were injured.

    The ministry said later two protesters received hospital treatment for gunshot wounds but it was unclear who had fired the shots. One was wounded in the hand, the other in the leg.

    Witnesses gave conflicting accounts of whether police used rubber or live bullets.

    "They were not targeting the people directly. It was indirect firing," said one Shiite activist who asked to be identified by only his first name, Hussein.
    Another resident, contacting The Associated Press by e-mail, said the Saudi authorities also beat some protesters with clubs. The resident said up to 12 protesters were injured, and some were arrested at the local hospital.
    It was not possible to verify this information independently.

    Videos dated Thursday and posted on social websites showed what appeared to be shooting. Crowds, of mostly men with a few children, were gathered in a small street, separated by an empty plot from the apparent source of fire. Occasional bursts of gunfire can be heard on the videos. The crowd was shouting "Peaceful, peaceful."

    Scores of protesters in Qatif marched in the city streets Wednesday night.
    Mainly Sunni Saudi Arabia has struggled to stay ahead of the unrest that has led to the ouster of the Egyptian and Tunisian leaders in recent weeks.

    Last month, the ultraconservative Saudi government announced an unprecedented economic package worth an estimated $36 billion that will give Saudis interest-free home loans, unemployment assistance and debt forgiveness.

    At the same time, it reiterated that demonstrations are forbidden in the kingdom because they contradict Islamic laws and society's values and said security forces were authorized to act against anyone violating the ban.
    So far the demonstrations have been small, concentrated in the east among Shiites demanding the release of detainees. But activists have been emboldened by other uprisings have set up Facebook groups calling for protests in the capital, Riyadh, on Friday to demand democratic reforms.
    One such group garnered more than 30,000 supporters. The group called the "Honein Revolution March 11" has listed a number of mosques in 17 Saudi cities for protesters to rally.

    The group says it strives to have elected officials in Saudi Arabia, including the ruler.

    The spread of calls for protests has prompted government officials to issue strong warnings that it will act against activists taking to the streets.
    Khalid al-Dakhil, a political science professor from Riyadh, said large scale protests are unlikely to spread outside the east, but he warned that the Arab "revolutionary wave" will catch up with the kingdom.

    "Saudi Arabia will be affected by this running wave. But I don't think it will be fatal or dangerous to the political system," he said. However, al-Dakhil said: "A security solution is not a solution. Some changes have to take place," including constitutional and political reform.

    Amnesty International called on Saudi authorities to reverse the ban on peaceful protests in the kingdom.

    Philip Luther, a spokesman for the international rights group, said authorities should address the need for major human rights reforms and heed the growing calls for change instead of trying to intimidate protesters.

    "Reports that the Saudi authorities plan to deploy troops to police upcoming demonstrations are very worrying," he said.

    The Interior Ministry has banned demonstrations, saying they contradict Islamic laws and society's values and adding that some people have tried to go around the law to "achieve illegitimate aims."

    "Reform cannot be achieved through protests ... The best way to achieve demands is through national dialogue," Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saudi al-Faisal said Wednesday.

    Oil prices had dropped to below $101 a barrel early Thursday, but rebounded a bit to nearly $104 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

    "The news report that protesters were fired upon by police in Saudi Arabia has pulled crude up from the lows," said Phil Flynn, analyst at PFGBest Research in Chicago.

  • #2
    What if we took away the ability for oil itself to be traded as a commodity?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
      What if we took away the ability for oil itself to be traded as a commodity?
      How are you going to do that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
        What if we took away the ability for oil itself to be traded as a commodity?
        That's not the issue. The issue is that real supply & demand has been removed due to changes in the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) after/during the Enron debacle.
        It allows people to buy and hold commodities that won't actually take delivery or storage. i.e. the whole speculator mess we have now.

        Ed Wallace did some nice pieces on this a few years back.
        "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GhostTX View Post
          That's not the issue. The issue is that real supply & demand has been removed due to changes in the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) after/during the Enron debacle.
          It allows people to buy and hold commodities that won't actually take delivery or storage. i.e. the whole speculator mess we have now.

          Ed Wallace did some nice pieces on this a few years back.
          That's why I stay out of the markets, even the commodities. I take physical delivery of my investments (ie: precious metals). It's not like I can take delivery and store $300K worth of oil, cattle or soybeans, LOL.

          In due time, I can use it to purchase all of the other crap I need.

          Edit: Not saying I have $300K worth of precious metals... no solid barg here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GhostTX View Post
            That's not the issue. The issue is that real supply & demand has been removed due to changes in the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) after/during the Enron debacle.
            It allows people to buy and hold commodities that won't actually take delivery or storage. i.e. the whole speculator mess we have now.

            Ed Wallace did some nice pieces on this a few years back.
            Hmm... what would need to be changed in order for for that to stop? There must be something that could be done so that oil will sit at its actual value. You know Obammy must be trying to do this right now, seeing as how he's considering opening up drilling. That says that he is looking for ways to lower oil prices so we don't dip back down.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
              Hmm... what would need to be changed in order for for that to stop? There must be something that could be done so that oil will sit at its actual value. You know Obammy must be trying to do this right now, seeing as how he's considering opening up drilling. That says that he is looking for ways to lower oil prices so we don't dip back down.
              Finding a way to repeal a couple of Bills would be a start. Excerpt from a Wallace article:
              ...
              Six months later came Senate Bill 3283, also named the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.
              This time around the sponsor was Republican Sen Richard Lugar of Indiana, and now Phil Gramm was listed as one of the bill's sponsors. Like it had In the House, this bill was destined to go nowhere until, late one night, it was attached as a rider to an 11,000-page appropriations bill - which was signed Into law by President Clinton.

              Now traders had an officially deregulated market for energy futures. Worse, that bill also deregulated many financial instruments - Including the collateralized debt obligations that are at the enter of today's mortgage crisis, which may well cost us more than $1 trillion belore it's over.
              ...
              "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

              Comment


              • #8
                Looks like the protests went out with a whimper. I figured they wouldn't come close to the scale of those in Egypt and Libya. From what I have read, things are not so bad for the general populace in Saudi Arabia, considering the type of government it has.


                The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


                Saudia Arabia quashes protests

                RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – A massive show of force snuffed out a Facebook-based effort to stage unprecedented pro-democracy protests in the capital of Saudi Arabia on Friday but political unrest and sectarian tensions roiled neighboring Yemen and Bahrain.
                Stevo
                Originally posted by SSMAN
                ...Welcome to the land of "Fuck it". No body cares, and if they do, no body cares.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
                  What if we took away the ability for oil itself to be traded as a commodity?
                  its a free country and a free market. just because someone knows how to make money and you dont doesnt give you the right to tell them they cant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ...

                    Originally posted by QIK46 View Post
                    its a free country and a free market. just because someone knows how to make money and you dont doesnt give you the right to tell them they cant.
                    It's not just "somone making money". The speculators are causing EVERYONE to pay a higher prices so they can make their profits. The speculators aren't even having to put up their own money either. They are basically gambling with other peoples money. If someone makes money without actually providing an asset or service for it, then I don't really care if they make money or not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by line-em-up View Post
                      It's not just "somone making money". The speculators are causing EVERYONE to pay a higher prices so they can make their profits. The speculators aren't even having to put up their own money either. They are basically gambling with other peoples money. If someone makes money without actually providing an asset or service for it, then I don't really care if they make money or not.
                      I don't care if they make money either, as long as they get raped in the mouth when their bets go bad. There should be no government regulation beyond the curbing of systemic risk.
                      Originally posted by racrguy
                      What's your beef with NPR, because their listeners are typically more informed than others?
                      Originally posted by racrguy
                      Voting is a constitutional right, overthrowing the government isn't.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by line-em-up View Post
                        It's not just "somone making money". The speculators are causing EVERYONE to pay a higher prices so they can make their profits. The speculators aren't even having to put up their own money either. They are basically gambling with other peoples money. If someone makes money without actually providing an asset or service for it, then I don't really care if they make money or not.
                        Yeah some people would have us deregulate to the point that this country would not exist in 3 years. Some laws are needed.

                        Comment

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