Ronald Reagan: Worst president ever?

[Moose242]

Weren't the Soviets already on a decline and it would have happened anyway?

You could argue that they were.

I have a couple of books on my shelf dealing with that very fact, and it seems that there is no clear consensus. However, it is generally agreed upon that the Soviet economic model would have eventually collapsed on its own.

[SlowLX]

No. By beefing up our military, the Soviets then tried to match ours, but they couldn't afford it. Reagan knew we could sustain the debt incurred (at that time) by ramping up our military. He won the Cold War by forcing the other side to try to beat us on the economic front.

The soviet military went bankrupt in Afghanistan not the eastern block

[Gargamel]

I am more than familiar with the circumstances surrounding the 1986 FOPA. That being said, it is impossible to criticize Reagan without all of the yellow dog repubs coming out of the woodwork and drawing a line in the sand.

I think he was a good president, but I do not agree with some of the things he did, and as such am not afraid to point out his flaws and misdeeds. He is not the best president we have ever had (Andrew Jackson or Washington IMO), but he is far from the worst.

Agreed.... But I'm more of a right leaning independent...

[Vertnut]

[QUOTE=Avery'sDad;151676]Weren't the Soviets already on a decline and it would have happened anyway?



Hahahahaha(breath)hahahahaha.

Delusional, brother...

[The King]

I am more than familiar with the circumstances surrounding the 1986 FOPA. That being said, it is impossible to criticize Reagan without all of the yellow dog repubs coming out of the woodwork and drawing a line in the sand.

I think he was a good president, but I do not agree with some of the things he did, and as such am not afraid to point out his flaws and misdeeds. He is not the best president we have ever had (Andrew Jackson or Washington IMO), but he is far from the worst.

I would agree with you that Reagan was not the best president we ever had, but he was no doubt the best president in my lifetime. This opinion is not based on something I gleaned from books or from Google, rather it's from first person experience.

[Broncojohnny]

Weren't the Soviets already on a decline and it would have happened anyway?

Let's not forget the "War on Drugs".

LMAO, spacemen could have landed too. We aren't talking about alternate history or what could have happened. We are talking about actual history.

[BP]

I'd say the war on drugs has been somewhat successful. Sure it's a giant cave we throw endless cash and resources into but at least the Columbian cartels aren't working with every major organized crime operation in the world any longer. The Mexicans have only recently figured out there is a European market for their stuff, the Columbians had their own air force to deliver cocaine around the world.

[Avery'sDad]

Maybe not the worst president, but it certainly sounds like the bad by far outweighs the good.

Good

. Ended the cold war



Bad

. Raised the deficit faster than any other president. More than tripled
the national debt.

. More appointed officials were indicted and convicted of crimes than
under any other president.

. Gave chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein.

. Claimed that trees cause most pollution.

. Iran-Contra. Involved violating federal law by trading in war materiel
with the Iranians and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

. Reagan's tax restructuring (massive cuts in 1981, followed
by tax increases in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987)
transferred tax burden from corporations and the wealthy to
the middle class and, especially, the working class poor.

. Granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants.

[BP]

.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

I think it was justified the first time one of Saddam's SCUDs were shot down before they hit Israel. Basically it neutered him and has kept other tyrants like Kim Il Jong in check for years. Not counting all the other benefits we've had from the program, many of which are classified.

How safe would you feel without defense missiles if someone like Hugo Chavez started testing long range missilies? All of our carrier groups would be vulnerable to attack and we probably wouldn't have the badass laser guided weapons we have today.

[Broncojohnny]

Maybe not the worst president, but it certainly sounds like the bad by far outweighs the good.

Good

. Ended the cold war



Bad

. Raised the deficit faster than any other president. More than tripled
the national debt. In order to win the cold war and possibly spare the lives of millions of people

. More appointed officials were indicted and convicted of crimes than
under any other president.

. Gave chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein. Because Jimmy Carter backed the wrong side in the Iranian revolution. Obama is possibly doing the same thing today

. Claimed that trees cause most pollution.

. Iran-Contra. Involved violating federal law by trading in war materiel
with the Iranians and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money. In order to win the cold war and possibly spare the lives of millions of people

. Reagan's tax restructuring (massive cuts in 1981, followed
by tax increases in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987)
transferred tax burden from corporations and the wealthy to
the middle class and, especially, the working class poor. Big fuckin deal, the freeloading poor in this country don't pay shit for taxes and the rich are tired of carrying them. This isn't a negative unless you are a fucking socialist

. Granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants.

...

[The King]

Reagan also restored respect for the U.S. in the world, respect that's now largely gone.

Stupid liberal pricks like this O.P. don't know shit about even our recent history.

[Gargamel]

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

Wasting... whatever....

SDI was a BIG reason why we currently have an operational Missile Defense System

Much of the research done in SDI was the backbone of the current National Missile Defense program, restarted by Clinton if I remember correctly.

Without SDI, we wouldn't have one....

Much of the research specifically assisted SM-3 Ground Based and Aegis Navy Systems as well as the current Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) System for the Army and CONUS Defense.

Yep, Lots of waste.....

[Avery'sDad]

...

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

[Gargamel]

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

Flat tax.... most conservatives support it... try selling it to a Democrat...

So now you are arguably down to one very debatable point: Taxes....
While people were generally making coin hand over fist in all sectors....

and you still say he was a BAD president?

Here's an even handed link going over the pros and cons of Reaganomics and its actual effects:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/Reaganomics.html

[8mpg]

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

Why does a rich person deserve to pay more percentage wise than you or me? Considering the rich pay 50% of the taxes in the US. I dont care if you are poor or not. Poor people should pay taxes as well.