Global warmed up: Study finds temperature data systematically fudged upward

[svauto-erotic855]

I'm of the mind that will be solved with technology. The better it gets, the less wasteful we are. We'll hit a certain point, where very little ever gets wasted. The electric cars are a prime example. 86% efficiency vs 25% energy efficiency is a big step in the right direction, and will have a big effect on that waste you're talking about. A lot less energy wasted there. And that's just one area of improvement. Almost all areas are improving, and there will come a day where no more improvements in terms of waste, are needed.

A gasoline ICE is not 25% efficient. An electric car may get 86% of its stored power converted into work but I seriously doubt it. The problem for electric anything is that they are only as efficient as what ever is charging their batteries. Every time energy change form it loses about 70% and that is why you are better off simply burning the fuel in an ICE that is directly moving the car vs trying to charge a battery and then using the stored juice in the battery to move the car.

[AnthonyS]

A gasoline ICE is not 25% efficient. An electric car may get 86% of its stored power converted into work but I seriously doubt it. The problem for electric anything is that they are only as efficient as what ever is charging their batteries. Every time energy change form it loses about 70% and that is why you are better off simply burning the fuel in an ICE that is directly moving the car vs trying to charge a battery and then using the stored juice in the battery to move the car.

Plug your car into the outlet in your garage and burn coal to save the world! Brilliant...... if you're an idiot.

[Gasser64]

A gasoline ICE is not 25% efficient. An electric car may get 86% of its stored power converted into work but I seriously doubt it. The problem for electric anything is that they are only as efficient as what ever is charging their batteries. Every time energy change form it loses about 70% and that is why you are better off simply burning the fuel in an ICE that is directly moving the car vs trying to charge a battery and then using the stored juice in the battery to move the car.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091436_toyota-gasoline-engine-achieves-thermal-efficiency-of-38-percent

So according to that article, yeah I was wrong. Its less, at only about 20% instead of 25%. Also I said the electric motor, not the entire car. The electric motor is 86% efficient, and some extra awesome models are higher than that. Of course you can't count the entire car when talking about engine efficiency. For electric or IC.

Next, that old argument about how its only going to get better with time. Eventually it will. You're not going to stop progress unless there is some kind of apocalypse. The electric cars, like gas cars, will only get better and better as the years tick by. Battery technology isn't just going to come to some kind of a dead halt. (although in this case its more like a replacement)

http://www.hybridcars.com/supercapacitor-breakthrough-allows-electric-vehicle-charging-in-seconds/

[svauto-erotic855]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-of-38-percent

So according to that article, yeah I was wrong. Its less, at only about 20% instead of 25%. Also I said the electric motor, not the entire car. The electric motor is 86% efficient, and some extra awesome models are higher than that. Of course you can't count the entire car when talking about engine efficiency. For electric or IC.

Next, that old argument about how its only going to get better with time. Eventually it will. You're not going to stop progress unless there is some kind of apocalypse. The electric cars, like gas cars, will only get better and better as the years tick by. Battery technology isn't just going to come to some kind of a dead halt. (although in this case its more like a replacement)


http://www.hybridcars.com/supercapac...ng-in-seconds/

Even 20 percent efficiency for a gasoline ICE is only under certain conditions. Defining efficiency of an electric motor is also hard to do since it is very dependent on exactly what and how you are measuring it. Are you including the efficiency of the main bus when you are making that high number claim?

Talk to any EE on the planet and ask the what the weakest link in any design is and they will tell you that it is the capacitor or battery. By design a battery or capacitor has to be able to discharge energy quickly and that is also their downfall. Electric cars are a dead end tech brought about by wishful thinking from fools with no engineering background. Until electricity is made totally from solar electric cars will never do what is expected from them.

I AM SAYING THIS LOUDLY JUST TO BE CLEAR. THE PROBLEM WITH ELECTRIC CARS IS NOT THE CAR. IT IS THE POWER SOURCE THAT CHARGES THE BATTERIES.

[SS Junk]

[Broncojohnny]

You'll comment on the merits of things that will likely never happen, but skate right past posts that ask real questions about how economics of these pie-in-the-sky plans would actually play out?

Liberals don't care about actual results, only intent.

[Gasser64]

Even 20 percent efficiency for a gasoline ICE is only under certain conditions. Defining efficiency of an electric motor is also hard to do since it is very dependent on exactly what and how you are measuring it. Are you including the efficiency of the main bus when you are making that high number claim?

Talk to any EE on the planet and ask the what the weakest link in any design is and they will tell you that it is the capacitor or battery. By design a battery or capacitor has to be able to discharge energy quickly and that is also their downfall. Electric cars are a dead end tech brought about by wishful thinking from fools with no engineering background. Until electricity is made totally from solar electric cars will never do what is expected from them.

I AM SAYING THIS LOUDLY JUST TO BE CLEAR. THE PROBLEM WITH ELECTRIC CARS IS NOT THE CAR. IT IS THE POWER SOURCE THAT CHARGES THE BATTERIES.

Unfortunately none of that really pans out if you look at it in terms of price. I'll take $1.16 per gallon vs $2.25 or whatever it is right now, any day. That's your fuel cost, less than half. If you like paying double that's fine, but I'm a little bit more money conscious than that. Of course I don't own an electric car, but given the choice between the two, at that fuel cost, I'm going to take the one that's cheaper. The electric cars are in such early stages that the only conversations we're going to be able to have are going to be based on the hypothetical.

Although I'm sure we can easily find someone who has owned a tesla or a leaf for 5 years, and ask them what their vehicle maintenance cost has looked like. I'm sure the gas car won't come out as the winner in that situation either. Lastly the "fuel" for the car coming from coal doesn't really bother me, as I'm not one of those people who's convinced that we need to pay another 25% of our income because coal burning exists. So we have:

1. Half the fuel costs

2. Less than half maintenance costs

3. Potentially powered by the sun or other renewable someday (like thorium hopefully)

4. Much more quiet car to drive

5. Nearly instant torque so more powerful automobile.

What's the problem again?

[AnthonyS]

Way more than twice the rare earth metals mined to bring you your electric car. So at least dont argue it's about saving the planet or environment. Those earth movers in China run high sulphur diesel and don't have squat for emission controls. But you have your shiny new feel good e car. It's bullshit just like all the bullshit enlightened retards cling to.

Today your touting e cars. Next it'll be universal basic income.

One day the tech will be there; today it is not.

[Gasser64]

Well of course since someone else is doing it, that makes it ok for everyone. I did say that I really don't care where the power comes from, as I'm not one of "those" people. And I'd fully agree that they tech isn't quite there yet, but give it 10-15 years. This conversation is probably pointless until that time but hey, there are some electric cars out now so we'll be talking about em.

Not sure why electric cars would somehow be related to communism. All I'm talking about is the free market. A better technology or company comes along, that offers a better product or service, and the other ones either adapt or they die. Either way suits me just fine. I like it because its like nature. Survival of the fittest.

[mschmoyer]

I just test drove a Tesla. Enjoy your antiques while you can. Until you do the test drive, you can live in bliss-filled denial. No other US based car manufacture has the balls to innovate like this car.
The "sales" experience was a welcome change. The employees had no incentive to sell me a car. They did not even ask. The kid's job was to describe it, show me, and ask if I had any questions. I want one more now. I can't walk into another Ford dealership after this. Good god if I hear "what can I do to get you to buy this car today" again. Now to start gathering up some pennies...

Go to Six Flags and ride the Mr. Scream (the electric-propelled roller coaster). That will give you an idea of how this car feels.

[lowfast]

I just test drove a Tesla. Enjoy your antiques while you can. Until you do the test drive, you can live in bliss-filled denial. No other US based car manufacture has the balls to innovate like this car.
The "sales" experience was a welcome change. The employees had no incentive to sell me a car. They did not even ask. The kid's job was to describe it, show me, and ask if I had any questions. I want one more now. I can't walk into another Ford dealership after this. Good god if I hear "what can I do to get you to buy this car today" again. Now to start gathering up some pennies...

Go to Six Flags and ride the Mr. Scream (the electric-propelled roller coaster). That will give you an idea of how this car feels.

I have found most highend car dealerships to be no pressure. They know the clientele are intelligent people who will not be pressured nor care about what monthly payment the dealers can work out for them.

[Baba Ganoush]

My "antique" will still fire up after the lights go out.

[Trip McNeely]

I just test drove a Tesla. Enjoy your antiques while you can. Until you do the test drive, you can live in bliss-filled denial. No other US based car manufacture has the balls to innovate like this car.
The "sales" experience was a welcome change. The employees had no incentive to sell me a car. They did not even ask. The kid's job was to describe it, show me, and ask if I had any questions. I want one more now. I can't walk into another Ford dealership after this. Good god if I hear "what can I do to get you to buy this car today" again. Now to start gathering up some pennies...

Go to Six Flags and ride the Mr. Scream (the electric-propelled roller coaster). That will give you an idea of how this car feels.

Which Solar powered power plant will you be charging this from again? You granola intellectuals crack me up

[Forever_frost]

My "antique" will still fire up after the lights go out.

And doesn't take 2 hours to refill when it is out of juice

[Big A]

My last trip to the Ford dealer was right pleasant, though I went in there knowing exactly what I wanted and what I was willing to pay. Also realize that because of the niche market and cost of the car, nobody walks into a Tesla dealership on the fence enough to be swayed by the least bit of pressure, either you want a $100k electric car or you don't, and they don't haggle on price.

The tech is nice, and they're quick, but I wouldn't straight-up trade my Mustang or X4 for any reason other than to sell it, buy what I want, and pocket the difference. It's still merely a novelty for rich guys that have multiple rides.