The EPA's Reign of Terror Coming To An End

[Strychnine]

Something I always thought would be interesting is an estimated ten year environmental impact report for new cars. Showing estimated gas, oil, battery, and tire use, plastic content, recyclable content, that kind of stuff. Not as a basis to tax the fuck out of consumers, but as another way to compare before buying.

You're looking for a Life Cycle Analysis - basically a cradle-to-grave look at every environmental impact (especially energy consumption, emissions, water consumption) a project has - and I think that's a great fucking idea for cars. I've done very very high level LCAs for different types of powergen setups, and they get really hairy really fast, and it would cost $$$, but it would be awesome to see.

If you could get the industry (via SAE?) to agree on boundary conditions for the studies (at what point do you stop looking up the supply chain), and then some standard conversions and accepted values you could have some really really awesome data.



EDIT: Danny, check this out: http://www.audi.com/content/dam/com/...assessment.pdf
Audi has some good published info on their LCAs, including boundaries, elements they concentrate on, etc.

[Gasser64]

It looks like the cars issue is probably about to resolve itself, with even more electric cars coming online this year. Just have 10 or 20 big battery recycling plants that are designed specifically to be environmentally friendly. Then its over. How cool would it be to charge up your car off your solar panels, and get to say a big FUCK YOU to oil companies, and electric companies at the same time? I'm all for paying less bills. More money in my pocket. Fuck their pockets.

And they are going to die, its only a matter of time. No reason to drag it out.

The next environmental issues would just be agricultural, and manufacturing. That's about it. Natural disasters are out of our control for now, so I'll ignore them.

[Strychnine]

How cool would it be to charge up your car off your solar panels, and get to say a big FUCK YOU to oil companies, and electric companies at the same time?

It's a shitload more complicated than that. There are baseload power needs that MUST be met. Coal is being regulated out due to emissions standards (even with CCS), nuclear has had an unnecessarily steep uphill battle for decades... for on-demand powergen NG is filling the gap via combined cycle power plants. Wind and solar farms (whose capacity factors are still <1/2 of coal or NG) are not dispachable, so when budgeting for entire projects they have to account for the cost of quick-start NG turbines (and fuel) to power generators when their product can't meet the contracted supply commitment.

On top of that, if you're advocating for a microgrid setup, well, the utilities aren't going to maintain the grids for free if no one is buying their product (and you WILL need those power plants if you get sustained cloudy days), and the govt is not about to step in and nationalize the grids.


You can have some mild annoyance toward carbon based energy and legacy utilities on sunny days when the wind is blowing, but you don't get to tell them to eat a dick.

[Gasser64]

Sure you can. IF we went ahead and put a little bit of effort in the right direction. Granted right this minute, you'd be right. Solar has fallen in cost as of late:

https://futurism.com/solar-power-cost-has-dropped-25-in-only-5-months/

And the hydrogen/solar hybrid setup, kills the sunlight dependency issue. They have used that technology to power street signs. Build it bigger and now it runs a house. Some guy is selling it already:








Or we could go with thorium, which is everywhere, and the rate of radioactive decay is only 10 years instead of 180,000 like plutonium. So if the Glen Rose plant was Thorium, and the worst happened and it vented, it would only be poisonous for 10 years. After that its like it never happened. Everyone can move back in and be just fine. Yes it can still kill you during that stretch of time, just like any energy source can kill you. Coal can kill you in several ways. Gasoline can burn you to death. And on and on. With 10 years being the rate of decay, we should be all over thorium. Shut down all that old plutonium shit.

There's lots of ways we could go. They're making oil out of popping algae cells now. Its a new era in energy, and its just going to keep going.

[46Tbird]

The post above sure seemed familiar...

Ok new idea. What about a separate 18hp lawnmower engine, rigged up to burn it's own gas and make it's own power, to run the alternator. Then the alternator is just hooked up to the car like normal. All under the hood. You just make sure your little lawnmower motor has gas, and you only run it when it's race day. The 5.0L engine exhaust could be loud enough to mask the lawnmower motor's noise, and you could also put a quiet exhaust system on the lawnmower motor.

Then, you can pump all the juice you want into that damn electric turbo, with no penalty to your main engine. Cause it ain't having to spin the high amp alternator you are going to need for this.

I know this has probly been covered a billion times already, but eh, I've never been one to care. Electric water pumps.

1. Will they end up saving you any money at the gas pump?

2. Are they reliable enough to be able to count on for a daily driver?

I have of course been watching "Horsepower TV" where they put this on some green early 90's camaro and boosted the fuel economy a little bit. With a couple other things of course but the water pump was part of it.

That's why I always wondered how a turbo is called so "efficient". A lot of force is needed, and the exhaust needs to be able to get by without being bottled up very much. But the turbo lets it go by on it's terms. Just seems strange to me that there isn't some form of drawback or parasitic loss coming from a turbo.

What actually happens to gasoline?
As we all know, gasoline has a shelf life. You can't just put it in your tank, or in a container, walk away for a year, and come back and have the gas still be good. So what is it that actually makes it go bad? Is it exposure to the air? If so, couldn't you just put it in a completely sealed off container to keep it from going bad? Or is there nothing you can do except put in those additives that extend its life span?

And how long will it last with a good additive?

After watching some youtube vids and posting a vid in the other forum, it got me thinking about this again. A few times over the years I have wondered this. Could you build a walking, man shaped robot out of hydraulics? I was thinking of something like a cross between the terminator, and that loading dock thing from the movie "Aliens" that Sigourney Weaver used to fight the queen. It wouldn't have to have a head and glowing read eyes, obviously. I am thinking of something that could conceivably have a practical application. It could run a voice recognition program, just like any help center's cheapo way to... be cheap. If they can make one say "If you want to pay your bill, please say: 'Pay my bill'" and have that work, then a robot can take voice commands.

And I have run into some pretty sophisticated voice command programs for those darn call centers. So you could slap that on there, to handle the voice commands. And since it is made out of hydraulics, its pretty strong and can lift pallets full of goods and set it somewhere for you. I think it could be made to walk with man-like legs without too much difficulty. We've all seen the videos where they make some robot-thing walk around. Thats not the hard part.

And, it could just simply be programmed for voice commands to set it on a certain, predefined path. You just better make dam sure that nothing is in its way lol. Cause if it is, its going to get run over. I think the main issue with why this wouldn't work, is power. But what if you had like a little onboard generator? Like a little weed eater motor or something? Or if that's not enough, then use a lawnmower motor or something a little larger than the weed eater motor. It wouldn't have to be loud, you can get a little muffler/exhaust system that would make it pretty quiet. And that little motor just spins a little alternator which of course charges some batteries for the electric motors. A lot like a car. Just something I have always wanted to try to do, if I ever had a boatload of spare cash laying around lol

[Craizie]

What the actual fuck?

Gasser, PM me your pot dealers contact info. I gots to see what that shits like.

[Gasser64]

Its cool I get it, you guys don't believe in science. I don't judge. But it is real, even if some people don't want to believe it.

Here's one on thorium:

[sc281]

It's not that we don't believe in science, it's just that at times you sound like Doc Brown, but without the genius ideas to back it up.



Now don't get me wrong. Personally, I like you, and you tend to have good points. ... but you also can get a little wound up at times -especially having anything do to with engineering or invention, I've noticed. (See above)

But hey, then again, I can get a little wound up too. Have you seen the random political picture thread?

[Strychnine]

Let me start with this so this post doesn't sound shitty and combative. In the end, I'm not saying this shit's impossible. Personally, I'm looking to move out of oil and gas and into renewables. I'm saying there's a lot more that goes into it than just throwing a solar panel on your roof and watching the O&G guys go out of business.

Sure you can. IF we went ahead and put a little bit of effort in the right direction. Granted right this minute, you'd be right. Solar has fallen in cost as of late:

https://futurism.com/solar-power-cos...only-5-months/

Yes, solar has fallen on an industrial scale, but if you want to tell the utilities to fuck off and just charge your car from a solar panel then you're talking about personal microgrid scale though which has it's own challenges... for instance, generating during a blackout (which is generally forbidden unless you can disconnect from the grid because you could kill line workers by backfeeding, or impossible because the panels make DC power and the inverter needs 120v/60Hz to function... but you could battery backup your home solar for another 30% cost increase...)

And the hydrogen/solar hybrid setup, kills the sunlight dependency issue.

His system is max capable of 3 kW generation.

The Joule Box price starts at $30,000 and goes to $75,000 for a fully loaded model that includes solar panels, wind turbine, and water-purification plant.

Assume 100% storage and discharge efficiency, 100% capacity factor, zero annual O&M cost, etc (excluding discount rate) and you get, roughly:

( 3kW * 8760hrs ) = 26,280 kWh maximum for $30,000. That's $1.14 / kWh on the low side. $2.85 / kWh on the high side.
Compare that to the LCOE for this 100 MW solar project in Nevada that has an LCOE of $0.04 / kWh

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying you're never going to change the world with costs that high. He's looking for rich off-the-grid preppers, not for average residential and commercial consumers. Commercial backing could reduce his production costs and selling price, but he's still competing against very cost effective alternatives.

They have used that technology to power street signs. Build it bigger and now it runs a house. :

The cost of his system is over half of the median household income in the US so his residential customer base is going to be very small, and 60% of electricity generated in the US (7.83 quads worth) goes to commercial and industrial applications, so there would have to be some MASSIVE economies of scale to get anyone to ditch commercial power rates and the cost/efficiency of backup diesel generators in the basement.

Big picture. Global economy, not a guy in his backyard. Technology will get trumped by economics 9 out of 10 times.

Or we could go with thorium

I have no argument here, and 100% support nuclear powergen. It is far and away the safest energy source we have, even factoring in Chernobyl and Fukushima. There are fewer global deaths per TWh from nuclear power than there are from even wind or solar.



Also, re fossil fuel companies:

And they are going to die, its only a matter of time. No reason to drag it out.

Even if 100% of the marginal growth in energy production comes from renewables you still have a baseline that is required to be maintained.





Again, it WILL all change one day... but it WILL take time and people will have to be open to new things... oh and money... and did I mention time and money?

[Craizie]

Its cool I get it, you guys don't believe in science. I don't judge. But it is real, even if some people don't want to believe it.

Here's one on thorium:

You got any other sources... I mean other than some youtube channel conspiracy theorist channel?

[Gasser64]

It's not that we don't believe in science, it's just that at times you sound like Doc Brown, but without the genius ideas to back it up.

Now don't get me wrong. Personally, I like you, and you tend to have good points. ... but you also can get a little wound up at times -especially having anything do to with engineering or invention, I've noticed. (See above)

But hey, then again, I can get a little wound up too. Have you seen the random political picture thread?

Well to be fair, I don't really have to have genius or genius ideas. All this is simply stuff I like to read about. Just because its fun. Its other people's genius and genius ideas.

Let me start with this so this post doesn't sound shitty and combative. In the end, I'm not saying this shit's impossible. Personally, I'm looking to move out of oil and gas and into renewables. I'm saying there's a lot more that goes into it than just throwing a solar panel on your roof and watching the O&G guys go out of business.

That would be a very large post to quote, so I'm going to cut it down and just address it that way. Basically in that context, I can only agree with everything you said. However

1. The hydrogen/solar system in the video, is modular. He says it can power a 10k foot house, no problem. But to do that you're going to add more panels, and more tanks. Yes that would of course be more money, but to be clear it could do it without issue. It just gets bigger. As I'm sure you'd be aware. This would cost... what did you say... something like $70k for the average house, and well over 100k for big ass houses? Too expensive. But if they became a lot more common, that would change.

2. I should have clarified better. But it looks to me like much of the rest of the post, I would say I addressed with the line at the beginning - "IF we started putting effort into..." We're going to be spending how much this year on energy? How many programs, and how many incentives, and how much focus is going into it? I'm just saying we should shift that over into other areas, from fossil fuels. If we did, thus "putting effort" into these other areas (like thorium for instance) we'd be well on our way. A lot of money and time and effort could go towards these frankly better technologies. That's all I really mean by that.

You got any other sources... I mean other than some youtube channel conspiracy theorist channel?

Not surprised, most people haven't heard of it. But there is a ton of stuff out there on it. Youtube and google will return plenty of material. From what I understand its advantages are safety, and abundance. I don't think it actually produces any more energy than plutonium, but I could be wrong about that. But due to the safety and abundance of thorium, it would be a lot easier to push it to the forefront. The safety issue is what currently kills nuclear power for everyone. Take away the safety concern, and we would just be using nuclear for everything. No reason to use anything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyr7jZOllI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGhEdcwXxdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlqcHzxp7oo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYxlpeJEKmw