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Churches Furious That IRS Agents Can Pose as Clergymen

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  • Churches Furious That IRS Agents Can Pose as Clergymen



    A church organization is furious that agents of the Internal Revenue Service officially are allowed to pose as clergymen to deceive and obtain information from churchgoers.

    The Rev. Patrick Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition, told The Christian Post, "It is an absolute disgrace that IRS undercover agents can pose as members of the clergy. It is the role of government to protect religious freedom and the First Amendment, and not to use it to gather information and spy on American citizens."

    Mahoney's ire was raised by an article in the New York Times, which said IRS undercover investigators officially are allowed to pose as members of the clergy.

    IRS regulations governing undercover operations, dating from 2012, specifically state, "An undercover employee ... may pose as an attorney, physician, clergyman, or member of the news media" and may "request information from an attorney, physician, clergyman, or other person who is under the obligation of a legal privilege of confidentiality and the particular information would ordinarily be privileged."

    "When one considers that the IRS under President [Barack] Obama has had serious charges of using the IRS for political intimidation and harassment of people that the White House considers it opposes, like conservative groups, religious organizations, this just adds another level to those charges and concerns," Mahoney told The Christian Post.

    "Is the IRS investigating churches and ministers who've said they cannot, in good faith, comply with Obamacare? These are very serious questions when you have a government agency sending undercover agents in as clergy to gather information and spying on American citizens.

    "I cannot think of a more serious issue, and I think the IRS needs to explain why they are doing this," Mahoney told The Christian Post.

    In an interview with Christian News Wire, Mahoney said, "The church and faith community are now being faced with the reality that the government is sending IRS agents, pretending to be members of the clergy, into Christian meetings, gatherings, and services for the distinct purpose of the government 'spying' on them.'

    "American citizens must confront the fact that when they share their concerns with a member of the clergy, they may be talking to an IRS agent.

    "This is clearly a trampling of the First Amendment, which affords to every American the right to freely worship according to the dictates of their conscience without government interference and harassment."

    The Times noted that IRS undercover agents have more latitude than even Justice Department agents when working undercover.

    The IRS told the Times that it was "not aware of any investigations where special agents have ever posed as attorneys, physicians, members of the clergy or members of the press specifically to gain information from a privileged relationship."

    The IRS would not say, however, whether agents have gone undercover to obtain information that is not considered legally privileged; for example, "the type of confidential information someone shares with a lawyer or doctor."
    I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

  • #2
    I always get a laugh out of these so-called news reports that start off with banners featuring colorful words like "furious".

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The King View Post
      I always get a laugh out of these so-called news reports that start off with banners featuring colorful words like "furious".

      Clickbait is the new forwarded email. I cringe every time a friend posts something that says "You won't believe it!!!" "Everyone was shocked!!!" "They left the room speechless!!!!"

      Comment


      • #4
        You do realize it links to the IRS regulation authorizing this correct?


        Section K.
        An undercover employee or cooperating private individual may pose as an attorney, physician, clergyman, or member of the news media. For example, an agent may pose as an attorney in a setting where he/she purports to represent some other identified party, such as another agent or cooperating private individual, or when the impersonation will clearly not involve a setting conducive to the initiation of an attorney-client relationship with any third party. Further, when assuming such roles, agents will not perform professional services associated with these cover occupations or assume such a cover occupation for the purpose of developing a privileged relationship with any third party.
        I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not disputing the validity of the reporting, merely commenting on the sad state of "journalism" in this country and their pathetic attempts to garner more views.

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          • #6
            Ah, got it. Still, it's there because it works. That said, any comments on IRS agents being able to pretend to be these protected classes of individuals to get information to fuck with you?
            I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by talisman View Post
              Clickbait is the new forwarded email. I cringe every time a friend posts something that says "You won't believe it!!!" "Everyone was shocked!!!" "They left the room speechless!!!!"
              Or the infamous OMG!!!

              Not disputing the actual validity of the article here either, Frost

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              • #8
                Opened this thinking it was about fried chicken, instead it is the corrupt messing with the corrupt lol.

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                • #9
                  Churches don't need to be tax exempt in the first place.
                  ZOMBIE REAGAN FOR PRESIDENT 2016!!! heh

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by YALE View Post
                    Churches don't need to be tax exempt in the first place.
                    preach it!!!!!!!!!!!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by YALE View Post
                      Churches don't need to be tax exempt in the first place.
                      You want to give the government more money to flush down the toilet? They need to be exempt, along with several other newly added institutions and organizations. Cut off the lifeline of their legalized thievery
                      WH

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                      • #12
                        I am as concerned, which is nada, with the tax-exempt status offered to churches as I am with the tax-exempt status granted to employee contributions to health flexible spending accounts. I participate in both and have no problem with the tax-exempt status of either.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gasser64 View Post
                          You want to give the government more money to flush down the toilet? They need to be exempt, along with several other newly added institutions and organizations. Cut off the lifeline of their legalized thievery
                          It's funny that you mention legalized thievery in this context. That's all most churches are. I'm not saying they present no societal value, but they're the perfect model to fleece the unsuspecting. They're a better model than casinos, in that regard.
                          ZOMBIE REAGAN FOR PRESIDENT 2016!!! heh

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by YALE View Post
                            It's funny that you mention legalized thievery in this context. That's all most churches are. I'm not saying they present no societal value, but they're the perfect model to fleece the unsuspecting. They're a better model than casinos, in that regard.
                            So I guess we're ignoring all that charity they do huh? Not only that, do we really need to go over willing donation vs tyrannical overtaxation? You cant be serious

                            Come to think of it, give me a church vs your beloved government any day. If I dont want to donate I dont have to, and if I dont want to play by their rules i dont have to.

                            Im curious as to how many times you've been "fleeced" by those "Donate a dollar" options when swiping your card. Did you donate and then get angry about having been ripped off?
                            WH

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                            • #15
                              I have always wanted to open a church for those reasons Yale lol.

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