History repeats itself...

[jw33]

No one owns any land, we only rent it.

[Craizie]

Maybe it's just that I'm not fucking retarded, but if I'm using land for my livelihood, it is land I own, not land owned by someone else.

Wat? I'm sure paying for grazing rights is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying the land.

[Forever_frost]

Why would you put money in to property you don't own? This has stupid all over it, the more details that come out. On all sides.

Not really. He put money into it because his family has been using it since the late 1880's. The grazing fees are meant to do improvements on the land and upkeep, neither of which was happening so he stopped paying for services not rendered. I know in Texas if you park your ass on property and claim it as yours and you're not kicked off in 10 years, it's yours. Wonder how that holds up in his neck of the woods.

[GhostTX]

Maybe it's just that I'm not fucking retarded, but if I'm using land for my livelihood, it is land I own, not land owned by someone else.

Plenty of leases out there that allow for improvements to be made (like fencing so the lessor can manage the cattle better), but such improvements are then the land owners at the end of the lease. Spend $5K to keep you from spending $10K on something else? Just business decisions, IMO.

[jayjohnson600]

No one owns any land, we only rent it.

Correct, people who think they are owners are actually just tenants of the land.
It's just one of several grand illusions that are long held in the psyche of US citizens.

[bcoop]

Wat? I'm sure paying for grazing rights is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying the land.

I didn't say it wasn't. Grazing rights are real cheap when you don't pay them at all. Why depend on public land to graze when this is how you expect to put food on the table? Poor model imo. If you don't own any land, seems to me you don't have any business raising livestock.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I didn't say it wasn't. Grazing rights are real cheap when you don't pay them at all. Why depend on public land to graze when this is how you expect to put food on the table? Poor model imo. If you don't own any land, seems to me you don't have any business raising livestock.

he paid grazing rights, just not BLM fees.

[BP]

I didn't say it wasn't. Grazing rights are real cheap when you don't pay them at all.

Fort Hood has 160k acres they lease out for grazing and they get about $1500 a year in fees, which works out to about a penny per acre. They are firing ranges so ranchers don't get to use them 24/7/365 but it's still a tiny amount.

[GhostTX]

I didn't say it wasn't. Grazing rights are real cheap when you don't pay them at all. Why depend on public land to graze when this is how you expect to put food on the table? Poor model imo. If you don't own any land, seems to me you don't have any business raising livestock.

For the arid region they're in, I heard somewhere you basically need 300 acres per cow to sustain them a year.

[ceyko]

Fort Hood has 160k acres they lease out for grazing and they get about $1500 a year in fees, which works out to about a penny per acre. They are firing ranges so ranchers don't get to use them 24/7/365 but it's still a tiny amount.

Ranchers make their cash on all the cows being blown up, shot or run over.

[Forever_frost]

Fort Hood has 160k acres they lease out for grazing and they get about $1500 a year in fees, which works out to about a penny per acre. They are firing ranges so ranchers don't get to use them 24/7/365 but it's still a tiny amount.

Yep, it's not unusual to be on a road march and pass a herd of cattle. OMG! Someone call the BLM out there, those ranchers aren't paying their 'fair share.' And the Army is leasing that land because it's not theirs. It's complicated but the Army leases X amount of acres for 99 year increments.

[BP]

Yep, it's not unusual to be on a road march and pass a herd of cattle. OMG! Someone call the BLM out there, those ranchers aren't paying their 'fair share.' And the Army is leasing that land because it's not theirs. It's complicated but the Army leases X amount of acres for 99 year increments.

It'd be really awesome if they opened it back up to ATVs and dirtbikes, instead of just the little 300 acre park.

[Forever_frost]

It'd be really awesome if they opened it back up to ATVs and dirtbikes, instead of just the little 300 acre park.

I remember bouncing out through there with my 4x4 Ranger. I'll admit that blasting through the artillery range was a bit of a trip.

[Forever_frost]

There are new developments in the battle between Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy and the federal government, including allegations that some of the family's cattle were buried in mass graves.

Napolitano: Nevada Ranch Standoff ‘the Last Straw’ With Obama Admin, Big Gov’t

The Bureau of Land Management said on Friday night that “illegal” structures – water tanks and corrals – on Bundy’s ranch had to be removed to restore the land to its natural state.

William La Jeunesse reported today (video above) that the court order justifying the BLM operation appears to give the agency the authority to only seize and impound the cattle. New footage shows that holes were cut in water tanks and fences damaged.

Bundy blames the BLM wranglers, who also allegedly killed two prized bulls. In an exclusive video obtained from the Bundy family (below), Griff Jenkins reported on On the Record that an unknown number of cows were buried in a mass grave.

In another video, Bundy family friend Corey Houston shows a fence in good condition where one of the bulls was supposedly creating an uproar. BLM has not yet responded to Fox News’ requests for comment.

Meanwhile, the rancher has since gotten his 400 cattle back from BLM.

The agency had said that if he didn't pay the $1 million in grazing fees, they would sell his cattle. The problem, La Jeunesse reported, is that no one in Nevada wanted to touch Bundy’s cattle out of fear of being blacklisted.

Nevada Agriculture Commissioner Ramona Morrison said, “The sale yards are very nervous about taking what has in the past been basically stolen cattle from the federal government.”

Documents show BLM paid a Utah wrangler $966K to collect Bundy’s cattle and Utah auctioneer to sell them. That move was met with resistance from Utah Governor Gary Herbert (R).

On April 2, three days before the BLM roundup, Gov. Herbert wrote a letter to the agency that reads in part: “As Governor of Utah, I urgently request that a herd of cattle seized by the Bureau of Land Management … from Cliven Bundy NOT be sent to Utah. These are serious concerns about human safety and animal health and well-being, if these animals are shipped to and sold in Utah.”

Bundy still refuses to recognize federal authority over the land. He continues to use it in violation of the court order which says his argument is “without merit.”

Watch William's report above on the damage at the ranch, and Griff's report below on the mass grave.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/04/16/new-videos-bundy-family-alleges-damage-feds-ranch-cattle-buried-mass-grave

[talisman]

I know in Texas if you park your ass on property and claim it as yours and you're not kicked off in 10 years, it's yours. Wonder how that holds up in his neck of the woods.

Find an example of that ever actually happening in the last 100 years.