Fred Phelps dying.

[Sean88gt]

Exactly. And this where a lot of the problems come from.

I agree. It displays their humanity and hunger for insert passionate cause here.

[racrguy]

It was an offer to give you some insight and then a some lunch and drinks afterwards to talk about your thoughts.

And did you forget where you are? All of our opinions are matters...

A discussion I would have on the topic of religion begins before church should even enter into the equation. More specifically, my conversation would begin at "is there a god, and if there is, does the bible correctly convey the words the god wishes it to." After we successfully answer those questions, depending on the answer, we can start to discuss the role of the church and the effect it is having.

[Baron Von Crowder]

A discussion I would have on the topic of religion begins before church should even enter into the equation. More specifically, my conversation would begin at "is there a god, and if there is, does the bible correctly convey the words the god wishes it to." After we successfully answer those questions, depending on the answer, we can start to discuss the role of the church and the effect it is having.

The role of church, god, and religion is to provide people with hope and an incentive to live a good and wholesome life. The problem comes when that is perverted by people's lust for money and power.

[46Tbird]

It would be stupid of me to think that you are all hypocrits. My stance on the topic is that you're good not because of your religion, but in spite of it.

I believe the message (that I have read) that (supposedly) was spoken by Christ. I added the parenthesis for your benefit, because as we both agree, the message was written by man and handed down through religion. I think we both see that as a place where man's greed and corruption could have altered the message. But I believe the message when it is selfless, positive, and gives us hope.

You start from a flawed position. Absolutely nothing I show to you in the bible will change your stance on the topic.

Is that what you're trying to do?

[Chili]

And another thread with racrguy trying to take on the church and all believers. Awesome.

Don't you get tired of arguing about the same nonsense over and over, and over and over?

[Baron Von Crowder]

And another thread with racrguy trying to take on the church and all believers. Awesome.

Don't you get tired of arguing about the same nonsense over and over, and over and over?

That would assume some level of mental stability.

[talisman]

And another thread with racrguy trying to take on the church and all believers. Awesome.

Don't you get tired of arguing about the same nonsense over and over, and over and over?

I'm glad I got that (mostly) out of my system when I was a teenager. It used to be amusing to a degree, but Sean you do just come off as a blowhard most of the time in these discussions. I certainly understand your viewpoint, but you're not accomplishing anything constructive with the way you present it. You may say you don't intend to, but I don't really believe that. Anywho, carry on.

[racrguy]

I believe the message (that I have read) that (supposedly) was spoken by Christ. I added the parenthesis for your benefit, because as we both agree, the message was written by man and handed down through religion. I think we both see that as a place where man's greed and corruption could have altered the message. But I believe the message when it is selfless, positive, and gives us hope.


Is that what you're trying to do?

You say that jesus spoke only of compassion and love, but there are passages in the bible where he says he has come to divide people, and another that calls for people's deaths. You will, from what I can tell, continue to say that Jesus was all about compassion and love.

Luke 19 (focus on 19:27 and the surrounding text for context)
Matthew 10:34-39 (Jesus is talking to the 12 apostles giving them instructions in Matthew 10)

[quikag]

Jesus is all about love, hope, and forgiveness. That is why he gave his life on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for ALL. However, there will come a day of Judgment where you will not want to be on the wrong end of the equation. This is the day Justice will be done.


Revelation 19:11-16

New King James Version (NKJV)


Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[a] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[b] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[c] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

[talisman]

Jesus is all about love, hope, and forgiveness. That is why he gave his life on the cross as a perfect sacrifice for ALL. However, there will come a day of Judgment where you will not want to be on the wrong end of the equation. This is the day Justice will be done.


Revelation 19:11-16

New King James Version (NKJV)


Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[a] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[b] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[c] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

And people wonder why it's hard to take this stuff seriously.

[Baron Von Crowder]

You say that jesus spoke only of compassion and love, but there are passages in the bible where he says he has come to divide people, and another that calls for people's deaths. You will, from what I can tell, continue to say that Jesus was all about compassion and love.

Luke 19 (focus on 19:27 and the surrounding text for context)
Matthew 10:34-39 (Jesus is talking to the 12 apostles giving them instructions in Matthew 10)

And this is where you and I are going to disagree, and you wont understand why.

Jesus didnt write the text, he was quoted. Its fairly easy to understand that a regular man has written, translated, or otherwise changed it to suit thier own agenda. Im not saying that he didnt say that, or what he said was mistaken or abused or whatnot. Im saying that I dont have to choose that part to take as gospel.

[ELVIS]

And people wonder why it's hard to take this stuff seriously.

doesnt Tony have a white horse?

god bless.

[Strychnine]

Luke 19 (focus on 19:27 and the surrounding text for context)

Luke 19:11 - "While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable"

Clearly not literal. I mean that passage is called "The Parable of the Ten Minas."

If you were to analyze it you would understand that the "executing" of the third man is analagous to the judgement of non-believers for the rejection of Christ.

There seem to be at least five major points that the parable communicates. First, Jesus will leave his disciples for an undetermined amount of time. Second, Jesus will return to consummate his kingdom some time in the future. Third, disciples of Jesus who are good stewards in his absence will receive incredible rewards from him upon his return. Fourth, disciples of Jesus who are poor stewards in his absence will have their rewards taken away and given to the disciples who are good stewards. Fifth, those who reject Jesus as the rightful king will face a terrible judgment upon his return.

Matthew 10:34-39 (Jesus is talking to the 12 apostles giving them instructions in Matthew 10)

You see the word sword and immediately assume death. Look at another perspective

The one key element in this lengthy passage is the word "sword," and its meaning is now clear. It indicates that following Jesus in his original Jewish society may not bring peace to a family, but may "split" it up, the precise function of a metaphorical sword. Are his disciples ready for that?

This kind of spiritual sword invisibly severs a man from his father, and daughter from her mother, and so on (Micah 7:6). Given Jesus’ own family resistance early on (they later came around), it is only natural he would say that no matter what the cost, one must follow him to the end, even if it means giving up one’s family.

But this applies only if the family rejects the new convert, not if the family accepts him in his new faith; he must not reject them, because the whole point of Jesus’ advent is to win as many people to his side as possible, even if this divides the world in two, but never violently

Look to another place where a sword is literally being used for violence and see his response:

reference the larger textual context in the Gospel of Matthew. In the Garden of Gethsemane, during the hour when Jesus was betrayed and arrested, Peter struck off the ear of the servant of the high priest in order to protect his Lord. But Jesus tells him to stop.

Matthew 26:52-53 says:

52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

[quikag]

And people wonder why it's hard to take this stuff seriously.

It's not hard if you study it seriously and take the Bible in context. It's easy to take random verses and throw pot shots at all the crazy Christians. It's nothing new and it has happened all the way back to Jesus' time and continues to this day. It states quite clearly in the Bible that believers will be persecuted by non-believers and it continues to get worse by the day.

[cobrajet69]

I agree. It displays their humanity and hunger for insert $$$ here.

Fixed- at least in many cases.

David