Tesla to Texas: How Do You Like Us Now?

[Ruffdaddy]

A conspiracy to waste time and effort maybe. The emissions per mile vary by what part of the country they are in and how the power that feeds them is made.

The problem in this conversation is the there are 2 topics that I am trying to address.

First you have to look at the stated reasons electric cars are even being considered and why. What goals are trying to be accomplished?

Second you have to do an analysis to see if those goals can be reached cheaper and easier with conventional tech without having to try to reinvent the wheel.

Honda was able to reach zero emission in 1995 with a conventional car. It produced cleaner air coming out of the tail pipe then the ambient air in California. CARB flatly refused to certify it as zero emissions even though there was no equipment that could detect what it spit out. CARB spent nearly 100 million coming up with new equipment that could measure the tail pipe emission just so they did not have to say that a car that burned gas was zero emissions.

My position is that electric car work sort of ok as proven by them being driven on the street but they do not accomplish the stated goals; nor do they meet or exceed the performance of conventional cars that cost less then half of what an electric car does. Electric cars can NEVER meet the stated goals as long as we keep getting electricity from burning any type of fuel to make it. If we make a switch to all solar, wind, hydro, or nuclear power they will be able to achieve the stated goals for making them. It is EXTREMELY unlikely that we will ever get even 1/3 of our power from wind or solar and it appears that we do not have the political will to try for more Hydro or nuclear power. Because of that I say that electric cars are a waste of time and effort that could produce better results if directed elsewhere.

And the back tracking commences...

[racrguy]

Son of a bitch........

[Gasser64]

What about from brushed to brushless motors? When didthat take place?

[Forever_frost]

I want a hydrogen fuel cell truck. Drive around in the rain and top up the tank

[talisman]

Die thread, die.

[Ruffdaddy]

Die thread, die.

You may know this already...but if you don't click in the link....it's as good as dead to you...

[jw33]

What about from brushed to brushless motors? When didthat take place?

1962

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

[svauto-erotic855]

Read and comprehend what we are saying. You are exactly one of those religious type people, except on the other side of the fence against EVs.

Here is why you're an idiot.
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First I start with this:





Now focus here...and think about what I originally said. All of that shit is 100% true. Electric motors are much more efficient.

Regenerative braking does work, and it typically uses the same fucking motor as a generator to charge the batteries. It's not this huge cumbersome system like you would have people believe.

And if you don't realize that electricity can be made by more than just burning fuel...you're a lost cause. Solar, Nuclear, Wind, Hydro...loads of way to make energy.
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Then we have this...



It's not about the NOW, its about setting up the infrastructure to have the ability to run EVs free of fossil fuels eventually. Nothing in engineering was ever immediate, and by your thought process we would never have a civilized world because everything is a waste of time patch job and not true development.

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I'll quote myself again to bring up this point. The importance of electric cars is to set up an infrastructure that allows for multiple different types energy generation, but a common method of energy storage. Just like currency.



Now focus on exactly what I'm saying and tell me again how that's wrong.

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You are still wrong here...it's less than 12%.



this is where you really show your inability to comprehend what we're saying. I'm bringing up the fact that you're claiming to have all of this knowledge and experience, but you used technology that isn't even relevant to modern EVs. Both the batteries and motors aren't even close to what is used today. You did a science experiment on a very simplified representation of an EV system.

Everyone knows electricity is generated largely by fossil fuels. But that doesn't mean it will always be that way. This is how advancement works. You have to set up the infrastructure. The goals are to phase out the reliance on fossil fuels

25 years and counting and not a single EV car or EV car company has turned a single penny's profit or has even been able to sell a car without a government subsidy. How far do you think the auto industry would have made it in the beginning if the same was true for gas powered cars?


I tell you what. If you believe in the potential of electrics and alternative energy then take all of your savings and invest in them; you will be rich if you are correct. How could you possible lose?

That my experiment with old tech was only surpassed when GM came out with the EV1 after spending billions on the project should show you what an uphill battle EVs are. If I had had the batteries that they were using in the EV1 my car would have out done theirs and I was working with only what I could come up with on my own. Granted; my car was very spartan, had one seat and had no a/c or heater but it would have gone farther on a charge than the EV1.

So far time has already proven my position to be correct and I believe that it will continue to do so. I also believe that my grand children will be driving cars powered by some type of combustible fuel if the politics that surround energy still allow for their production in this country.

[Cooter]

I want a hydrogen fuel cell truck. Drive around in the rain and top up the tank

[svauto-erotic855]

^^^^^

This is what it will take to truly work the way the greenies think that it will.

[racrguy]

25 years and counting and not a single EV car or EV car company has turned a single penny's profit or has even been able to sell a car without a government subsidy. How far do you think the auto industry would have made it in the beginning if the same was true for gas powered cars?


I tell you what. If you believe in the potential of electrics and alternative energy then take all of your savings and invest in them; you will be rich if you are correct. How could you possible lose?

That my experiment with old tech was only surpassed when GM came out with the EV1 after spending billions on the project should show you what an uphill battle EVs are. If I had had the batteries that they were using in the EV1 my car would have out done theirs and I was working with only what I could come up with on my own. Granted; my car was very spartan, had one seat and had no a/c or heater but it would have gone farther on a charge than the EV1.

So far time has already proven my position to be correct and I believe that it will continue to do so. I also believe that my grand children will be driving cars powered by some type of combustible fuel if the politics that surround energy still allow for their production in this country.

You haven't proven anything, and how much money has been spent developing the ICE? I'd bet good money that it's more than billions. You continue to harp about things that have yet to be proven by you (either you're too lazy to prove it or there's no proof to be had) and ignore everything regarding the ICE.

[svauto-erotic855]

You haven't proven anything, and how much money has been spent developing the ICE? I'd bet good money that it's more than billions. You continue to harp about things that have yet to be proven by you (either you're too lazy to prove it or there's no proof to be had) and ignore everything regarding the ICE.

The ICE is a very simple design and it worked correctly from nearly day one and has turned a profit since the word "Go". The biggest kick in the pants for the ICE was the Kettering ignition. Most of the hard development work for the ICE was finished in the late 1950s and it has just been tweaks and details since then. Although it has yet to reach its full level of design maturity all of the pieces are there and most are going to be reality soon if we would just stop wasting time and effort on fancy golf carts.

[BP]

The Collins Street Bakery in Waco just installed an entire row of Tesla Supercharger stations. So while you enjoy a $12 chicken salad sandwich you can get a free full charge in an hour.

[Baron Von Crowder]

A Tesla was behind me in traffic this morning.

[racrguy]

The ICE is a very simple design and it worked correctly from nearly day one and has turned a profit since the word "Go". The biggest kick in the pants for the ICE was the Kettering ignition. Most of the hard development work for the ICE was finished in the late 1950s and it has just been tweaks and details since then. Although it has yet to reach its full level of design maturity all of the pieces are there and most are going to be reality soon if we would just stop wasting time and effort on fancy golf carts.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I don't think you do. Hell, I'm not even an engineer and I can tell you're full of shit. You do realize that fossil fuels are a finite resource, right?