Tesla to Texas: How Do You Like Us Now?

[Ruffdaddy]

These cars are designed for city folk frost, not for the outliers.

And you guys must not understand what new development means. Batteries have progressed and continue to. Sure they're not some new random element, but that doesn't mean it's not new tech. I have designed battery powered stuff ranging from downhole tools to ground vehicle defense systems and the technology seems to be continuously evolving. Maybe primary lithium batteries aren't changing much but new stuff is always coming out in both the performance and safety arenas.

Think of electricity as the currency of energy. The benefit of electricity is that it can be generated a multitude of ways but used for the same purpose as petrol. It lowers our dependence on oil and gas. And svo855 is flat out wrong about regenerative braking. They are efficient enough to be effective, and they do not add appreciable weight. Actually he's wrong about most of what he's saying.

An electrical system has much more potential in the way of efficiency than petrol based. EVs aren't for everyone, but as they continue to develop they will become more useful.

[CJ]

How far do you live from the grocery store?



How many Flying J do you pass on a regular basis? You're comparing one "chain" of stores to the entirety of the gas station market.

Almost none in the metroplex, Hell, I never see them. What I'm saying is I can find a gas station every square mile around here. Power station? I have only seen 1.

[Ruffdaddy]

Nearest gas station is 35 miles. If I need to, I can take a 55 gallon drum and put it at the house full of fuel. How much will spare batteries weigh/cost compared to gasoline? Is it easier to fill a tank with a gas can on the side of the road if you run out of fuel or to change batteries? Is AAA coming out to your car with a charger and 24 hours of sitting there to get you on the road or a spare set of batteries?

Tell me how this is innovation.

Tesla is working on making drop in replacement batteries similar to refueling. This would also be the goal for roadside assistance.

http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap

[Gasser64]

If battery technology hasn't progressed "much at all" then why do we have some EV's only able to go 30-40 miles, yet another able to go hundreds? Also, why are we regularly changing battery chemicals for increased power, efficiency, and storage capacity if we aren't developing new materials?

There is still one problem. Like svo suggest ,

What is the efficiency of transferring electricity down the lines? He said 12%

Im pretty sure nearly 100% of gasoline/oil gets to the destination, albiet at the cost of electricity to do so

If the electricity is generated locally though this problem might be mitigated. Many many factors to take into account

[Ruffdaddy]

Almost none in the metroplex, Hell, I never see them. What I'm saying is I can find a gas station every square mile around here. Power station? I have only seen 1.

No they aren't as common as gas stations, but there are a hell of a lot more in the metroplex than you realize. You just didn't either pay attention, or realize what it was. Many companies have them.

https://www.plugshare.com

[Ruffdaddy]

There is still one problem. Like svo suggest ,

What is the efficiency of transferring electricity down the lines? He said 12%

Im pretty sure nearly 100% of gasoline/oil gets to the destination, albiet at the cost of electricity to do so

If the electricity is generated locally though this problem might be mitigated. Many many factors to take into account

What is the efficiency of distributing oil? Lol no shit it gets to the destination but it also takes fuel to get there.

[futant]

personally i hate EV's but they are the future.

motorcycles have been making strides, sure not cruisers, but overall i'd say give it 10 years and I think electric will own half the market. For good reason too. Even if I think it will take the joy out so much, they will perform the same. Quieter, cheaper to build, cheaper to maintain/easier, same range, etc no more epa problems for them (ever increasing problem honestly whether yo ulike to hear it or not)

cars, just look at what the race vehicles are doing, it's all going to be hybrids with regen braking. except the city commuters for short distance. best of both worlds. Towing will stay diesel for a long time to come OF course. maint will be a nightmare with all the parts and shit but that's never stopped them before

like i said id rather not see it happen , but it will .... just look at the political climate too. they have forced mpg which seems unachievable at this stage of dev.
in fact they created a system to get bogus mpg on the windows stickers just for that reason. Sooner or later that will come to roost though and they will have to get closer tothe magic govt imposed 50mpg figure. Vehicles will go 50% hybrids, 50% EV's in my opinion. auto prices will go through the roof. with all the extra parts there will be breakdowns. Not sure if them being hybrid will get you home still, but one thing is for sure it will be expensive to fix. auto mechanics will definitely make more money, closer in line with IT i bet

[Gasser64]

What is the efficiency of distributing oil? Lol no shit it gets to the destination but it also takes fuel to get there.

Thats what im asking but i doubt anybody has the answer

Something tell me its better than 12%; im not sure if that figure is accurate. If it is, then we lose 88% of all generated electricity just by sending it down the wires

Which would seem unacceptable

[Ruffdaddy]

Thats what im asking but i doubt anybody has the answer

Something tell me its better than 12% but im not even sure if that figure is accurate. If it is, then we lose 88% of all generated electricity just by sending it down the wires

There's not an easy answer just like there isn't for electricity. For oil the efficiency of energy recovery depends on soooo much starting with the location of the formation, type of formation and reserves, refinement and then distribution network.

[Ruffdaddy]

Thats what im asking but i doubt anybody has the answer

Something tell me its better than 12%; im not sure if that figure is accurate. If it is, then we lose 88% of all generated electricity just by sending it down the wires

Which would seem unacceptable

Electrical Transmission and distribution LOSSES aren't even 12%. They are single digit (5-8). Not sure where this incorrect value is coming from but it is not true.

[Chili]

There is still one problem. Like svo suggest ,

What is the efficiency of transferring electricity down the lines? He said 12%

Im pretty sure nearly 100% of gasoline/oil gets to the destination, albiet at the cost of electricity to do so

If the electricity is generated locally though this problem might be mitigated. Many many factors to take into account

Thats what im asking but i doubt anybody has the answer

Something tell me its better than 12%; im not sure if that figure is accurate. If it is, then we lose 88% of all generated electricity just by sending it down the wires

Which would seem unacceptable

Electrical Transmission and distribution LOSSES aren't even 12%. They are single digit (5-8). Not sure where this incorrect value is coming from but it is not true.

Line losses in electricity transmission and distribution are nowhere near that (88%), even factoring in congestion, at least not as it travels from the generators through the transmission and distribution providers (like Oncor).

I figured the losses he was referring to is in the charging process.

[Gasser64]

Electrical Transmission and distribution LOSSES aren't even 12%. They are single digit (5-8). Not sure where this incorrect value is coming from but it is not true.

thank you for that clarify

Good info to know! As for charging. Heat? But i think this point is moot if they really ever do switch to capacitors instead. Way better capacitors but they could do it

I do know that my friend who put together his own solar is always complaining about the loss between the panels and the final endpoint, his house. But of course thats a whole different set of variables

[svauto-erotic855]

Oh, so refining existing technology with new processes and materials isn't new technology? If you want to classify new technology the way you did, there is little to no new technology. In fact, I can't think of a time when a new technology came about in my lifetime, going by your requirements.

Big advancements are revolutionary not evolutionary and there is not even any talk of theory's concerning revolutionary advancements much less any work being made towards them.

To Aggie and SVO, neither of you have explained why EV's are flash in the pan, won't work, or some other reason they won't work. You've both said technology hasn't progressed, but when looking at the reality of the situation, it disagrees with you.

I never said that they were a flash in the pan. I said that they will not do what the proponents of them want them to do because there is no such thing as a free lunch in engineering. They are a distraction from working on other types of technology that will make a bigger impact on the stated goals of the proponents of "green technology". Making a small car that gets the equivalent of 50mpg is not that big of a deal when a car of similar size and a IC engine gets 45mpg. Making a Tahoe or something like it that will get 20mpg around town is a MUCH bigger deal once you crunch the numbers.

There is still one problem. Like svo suggest ,

What is the efficiency of transferring electricity down the lines? He said 12%

My 12% number was losses. There are individual lines that have much lower losses and the figure in the early 80's was 10% but the grid is aging and the latest figure for the system as a whole in the US is touching on 12%.

[Gasser64]

Yes you have to look at the big picture so i see what he saying hes a big picture kind of guy.

[Slowhand]

Never let it be said that DFWM doesn't believe in arbitrary and capricious government meddling in private enterprise!