Insane Clown Posse and ACLU sue FBI

[Baron Von Crowder]

Couldn't you guys pick a better dumb argument to have than this?

I See fuckin Pee's in da house!

[The King]

Couldn't you guys pick a better dumb argument to have than this?

If trublu would come back you and he could make this look like childs play.

[talisman]

If trublu would come back you and he could make this look like childs play.

Nevermind, they can carry on. I feel like a much nicer person since he left.

[stevo]

You could end this entire discussion by showing where the FBI declared the Juggalo community as a gang in the legal sense of the word instead of pointing to nothing and going "SEE!! IT'S THERE!!".

Page 22-23.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment/2011%20National%20Gang%20Threat%20Assessment%20%20Emerging%20Trends.pdf

Or do I need to file FOIA, acquire certified copies of it, and hand deliver them to you?

Stevo

[Maddhattter]

Page 22-23.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment/2011%20National%20Gang%20Threat%20Assessment%20%20Emerging%20Trends.pdf

Or do I need to file FOIA, acquire certified copies of it, and hand deliver them to you?

Stevo

You seriously just linked the report that does not list anything under the legal definition of a gang because the report defines gang with a non-legal definition as evidence that the report claims they are a gang by legal definitions?

I genuinely cannot believe that you would somehow think that this would do anything other that validate everything I've said in this thread.

Note: You've not demonstrated that the FBI have declared the Juggalo community as a gang in the legal sense, because the report that you cite does not use the legal definition of gang. Even if it did, the report still explicitly states that "many Juggalos subsets exhibit gang-like behavior and engage in criminal activity and violence."(Emphasis mine)

So the report, that does not even use the legal definition of gang, that supposedly labels all Juggalos as members of a gang states specifically that it's only referring to a subset.

So, again, you could end this entire discussion by showing where the FBI declared the Juggalo community as a gang in the legal sense of the word instead of pointing to nothing and going "SEE!! IT'S THERE!!".

[Forever_frost]

Hatter,

So if I set up a commission to do a report and they report that Tali is God in the flesh, does that actually make him God in the flesh or does the report become idiotic because it's making it's own definitions absent any concrete definitions or historical basis?

[stevo]

You seriously just linked the report that does not list anything under the legal definition of a gang because the report defines gang with a non-legal definition as evidence that the report claims they are a gang by legal definitions?

I genuinely cannot believe that you would somehow think that this would do anything other that validate everything I've said in this thread.

Note: You've not demonstrated that the FBI have declared the Juggalo community as a gang in the legal sense, because the report that you cite does not use the legal definition of gang. Even if it did, the report still explicitly states that "many Juggalos subsets exhibit gang-like behavior and engage in criminal activity and violence."(Emphasis mine)

So the report, that does not even use the legal definition of gang, that supposedly labels all Juggalos as members of a gang states specifically that it's only referring to a subset.

So, again, you could end this entire discussion by showing where the FBI declared the Juggalo community as a gang in the legal sense of the word instead of pointing to nothing and going "SEE!! IT'S THERE!!".

You are an idiot. I have listed the federal law, in post 38, and then again in post 43. I have listed the federal document where they list the classification given to them. You have listed nothing to counter them. This discussion was made to discuss the fact that they did not follow their own law in the designation.

Stevo

[Maddhattter]

Hatter,

So if I set up a commission to do a report and they report that Tali is God in the flesh, does that actually make him God in the flesh or does the report become idiotic because it's making it's own definitions absent any concrete definitions or historical basis?

The report would be accurate within it's own context, however, it would be idiotic and would have no accuracy outside it's own context. I've stated the same thing about the FBI's report repeatedly. Outside the context of the report, it is a waste of time and effort because it has not legal relevance because it is not using the legal definitions.

I believe, in this thread, I gave a similar example using colors and grass to illustrate the same idea.

[talisman]

Hatter,

So if I set up a commission to do a report and they report that Tali is God in the flesh, does that actually make him God in the flesh or does the report become idiotic because it's making it's own definitions absent any concrete definitions or historical basis?

Sounds accurate to me.

[Maddhattter]

You are an idiot. I have listed the federal law, in post 38, and then again in post 43. I have listed the federal document where they list the classification given to them. You have listed nothing to counter them.

Stevo

Incorrect. I listed the definition of gang that the FBI report that you, and this lawsuit, cite. The fact that the FBI report is not using the same definition of gang, as the law does, means that it cannot legally be applied to anything. This means that the FBI did not state that Juggalos, either a subset or the whole community, are a gang in the legal sense of the word.

A report does not have legal authority or relevance just because a report is commissioned by a federal agency.

So, in all that you've listed above, you've yet to list anything that supports your position, nor anything that contradicts mine.

[stevo]

Incorrect. I listed the definition of gang that the FBI report that you, and this lawsuit, cite. The fact that the FBI report is not using the same definition of gang, as the law does, means that it cannot legally be applied to anything. This means that the FBI did not state that Juggalos, either a subset or the whole community, are a gang in the legal sense of the word.

A report does not have legal authority or relevance just because a report is commissioned by a federal agency.

So, in all that you've listed above, you've yet to list anything that supports your position, nor anything that contradicts mine.

Prove it. Instead of coming back and saying "nuh uhh!", prove it. Show the federal statutes.

Stevo

[Forever_frost]

The report would be accurate within it's own context, however, it would be idiotic and would have no accuracy outside it's own context. I've stated the same thing about the FBI's report repeatedly. Outside the context of the report, it is a waste of time and effort because it has not legal relevance because it is not using the legal definitions.

I believe, in this thread, I gave a similar example using colors and grass to illustrate the same idea.

I believe the issue is that it's the FBI's report that calls these individuals who have engaged in no crime and are exercising their right to assemble and associate calling these people criminals. It's a federal law enforcement agency releasing a report they funded that labels people who are doing nothing wrong as a gang.

[stevo]

I believe the issue is that it's the FBI's report that calls these individuals who have engaged in no crime and are exercising their right to assemble and associate calling these people criminals. It's a federal law enforcement agency releasing a report they funded that labels people who are doing nothing wrong as a gang.

This is exactly why I posted this thread. I have told the idiot that in a dozen posts, he keeps trying to spin it because he fucked up in his original comment when he replied to me. Since then, he has tried to run around it in a circle, and in his arrogance he refuses to admit he was wrong.

Fuck it, I can continue to post all night, I have beer and as long as it is raining, I'm going to sit in front of the computer.

Stevo

[Maddhattter]

Prove it. Instead of coming back and saying "nuh uhh!", prove it. Show the federal statutes.

Stevo

Prove what?

[stevo]

Prove what?

Prove me wrong.

Stevo