California flies Communist Chinese flag

[Moose242]

Threat of a hail of ICBMs > threat of some dudes with small arms.

Thank Oppenheimer.

I am exponentially more worried about our own military coming and killing us rather than a foreign one.

[Forever_frost]

Threat of a hail of ICBMs > threat of some dudes with small arms.

Thank Oppenheimer.

I am exponentially more worried about our own military coming and killing us rather than a foreign one.

Really? You know we wouldn't dare fire ICBM's on an invasion fleet here. Hell, we don't use them in any war we fight. What prevents someone invading? Some dudes with small arms.

Ever gone up against 'some dudes with small arms?' I have. It's a deterrent.

[Moose242]

No, not here obviously but we sure as hell would not hesitate to open up the silos if the shit really hit the fan. You are a child of the Cold War, surely you remember the threat of complete and total nuclear obliteration being a real threat to everyone.
And we have used nukes in warfare. Quite successfully.

The Soviet Union did not storm through the Fulda Gap because of NATO soldiers posted around the iron curtain, they stayed put because of MAD. Our current dudes with small arms dating back to Vietnam have fought fought for little more than ideology and to impose the will of the West abroad. We weren't fighting to defend and uphold shit in Vietnam, hell the people democratically elected the communists three times and we were like "no, were going to liberate the shit out of you now".

I guess what I am saying since I have been dragged into it is that the armed forces of the US have not defended us from a legitimate threat to our freedom since 1945. Like I said, I am much more worried about our own military jack boots than foreign soldiers.

[naynay]

Hate to break it to you, but you live in a global economy. This isn't the 1950's. Most "American" cars have a vast quantity of parts that are made in other countries. There is no such thing as an "American" car, unless you're rolling a '57 Chevy.

or a 63 c10 amirite?!

[BradM]

I'm with this gringo!

Then I go home and make a white flag out of toilet paper.

[Forever_frost]

No, not here obviously but we sure as hell would not hesitate to open up the silos if the shit really hit the fan. You are a child of the Cold War, surely you remember the threat of complete and total nuclear obliteration being a real threat to everyone.
And we have used nukes in warfare. Quite successfully.

The Soviet Union did not storm through the Fulda Gap because of NATO soldiers posted around the iron curtain, they stayed put because of MAD. Our current dudes with small arms dating back to Vietnam have fought fought for little more than ideology and to impose the will of the West abroad. We weren't fighting to defend and uphold shit in Vietnam, hell the people democratically elected the communists three times and we were like "no, were going to liberate the shit out of you now".

I guess what I am saying since I have been dragged into it is that the armed forces of the US have not defended us from a legitimate threat to our freedom since 1945. Like I said, I am much more worried about our own military jack boots than foreign soldiers.

Military jack boots? You know we can't act on US soil because of posse commatatus right? National guard? Sure, those assholes have opened fire on Americans before, but not active duty military. Every one of us takes an oath and the majority of us take it seriously enough to not open fire on our own communities or obey unconstitutional, unlawful orders as that is drilled into us from the first week of basic training onward.

[Pro88LX]

That's how I see it. Drive American. Why do you think the auto industry took a dump? You know other than the unions running them into the ground.

What about my Acura that was built in Marysville Ohio by who i would presume are Americans? My Trans Am was built in Canada lol

[Moose242]

Military jack boots? You know we can't act on US soil because of posse commatatus right? National guard? Sure, those assholes have opened fire on Americans before, but not active duty military. Every one of us takes an oath and the majority of us take it seriously enough to not open fire on our own communities or obey unconstitutional, unlawful orders as that is drilled into us from the first week of basic training onward.

Of course I know it, but all they need is a good crisis for martial law, then the posse commatatus goes out the window. The US military has killed Americans on US soil for protesting peacefully. What is there to stop that again?

Immature 18 year old private would follow orders to shoot, sure maybe some would defect but you know the old addage, "how do you turn a kid with a 130 IQ into a kid with an 85 IQ? Throw him into the military".

[Forever_frost]

Yeah, never heard that addage. Most infantrymen I knew blew the ASVAB out of the water and actually knew a bit about the Supreme Law of the land. It's pretty heavily drilled into us that if we violate the constitution that "I was following orders" doesn't fly. You're on your own.

How many soldiers do you think would open fire on their own communities? Their own friends and relatives? Get back to me on that. Our forces would be screwed trying to secure a country of 310 million with 1/600th of that and no ability to use air support in cities because of collateral damage.

[Moose242]

Yeah, never heard that addage. Most infantrymen I knew blew the ASVAB out of the water and actually knew a bit about the Supreme Law of the land. It's pretty heavily drilled into us that if we violate the constitution that "I was following orders" doesn't fly. You're on your own.

How many soldiers do you think would open fire on their own communities? Their own friends and relatives? Get back to me on that. Our forces would be screwed trying to secure a country of 310 million with 1/600th of that and no ability to use air support in cities because of collateral damage.

Funny I have heard it many times albeit phrased slightly different I suppose each time. And soldiers are generally not stationed in their home states and a hypothesis as to why this is is that if there is a need to come down on the populace there would be less hesitation.

Soldiers have and do violate the constitution. In 1970 when military thugs in Ohio fired 70 rounds into students peacefully protesting, nothing happened to them. They didn't even get a slap on the wrist. The court threw the case out. Those fucks should have been hung in a public square for killing those kids and violating their right to.

[racrguy]

I've noticed a distinct lack of critical thinking skills in this thread.

[Forever_frost]

Funny I have heard it many times albeit phrased slightly different I suppose each time. And soldiers are generally not stationed in their home states and a hypothesis as to why this is is that if there is a need to come down on the populace there would be less hesitation.

Soldiers have and do violate the constitution. In 1970 when military thugs in Ohio fired 70 rounds into students peacefully protesting, nothing happened to them. They didn't even get a slap on the wrist. The court threw the case out. Those fucks should have been hung in a public square for killing those kids and violating their right to.

You mean the national guard. Those thugs? Yeah, that was fucked up. They were put in a position where the students refused to disperse and the national guard could not stand down.

That was a perfect storm. Students decided to riot and destroy public property, entire local police force was mobilized. The National Guard was called up to handle the destruction. When they got there, the ROTC building was burning, firemen and police were pelted with rocks as they tried to put out the fire. This went on days, the NG were attacked over and over again with rocks and tear gas and the governor told them to clear the area.

It's not like they marched up and opened fire.

[Moose242]

So you acknowledge my point that the military does some dumbass fucked up shit?

[Forever_frost]

So you acknowledge my point that the military does some dumbass fucked up shit?

I've never said the military doesn't do dumb, fucked up shit. We do that every single day. From losing a missile in the middle of a ski resort, to Bradley drivers jousting and losing ruck sacks tied on the side, it happens all of the time. Stupidity is far different than opening fire on citizens. National Guard is also different than active duty

[LANTIRN]

Funny I have heard it many times albeit phrased slightly different I suppose each time. And soldiers are generally not stationed in their home states and a hypothesis as to why this is is that if there is a need to come down on the populace there would be less hesitation.

Soldiers have and do violate the constitution. In 1970 when military thugs in Ohio fired 70 rounds into students peacefully protesting, nothing happened to them. They didn't even get a slap on the wrist. The court threw the case out. Those fucks should have been hung in a public square for killing those kids and violating their right to.

I just want to point out that while I was active duty I knew a lot of members who were stationed in their home state at one time or another. I knew some who were even stationed int their home towns. There is no conspiracy to station troops away from family so they will more easily shoot civilians.