Athiest, Dead On Morgue Slab, Awakes After Meeting Jesus in Heaven...

[4.6coupe]

I've met some really stupid, confirmation bias seeking retards, but I think you might just take the cake.

For the most part, we are all the same. Whether you are christian, muslim, hindu, athiest, exc. When we believe in something, whether you like it or not, you are choosing a side. Every god, in which ever religion, ( whether true or not ) tells us to love and respect all. Then of course you have the devil, which I will never understand how anyone could worship that thing, calls for the complete opposite... It seeks death and destruction...
The difference between us ( regardless of our faith ) is that some are more open-minded and are able to understand that just because we know in our heart that we ourselves are right, it doesn't give us the right to disrespect or dishonor anothers faith if it does not hurt anyone.
Where as others (whether narrow-minded or extremists ) are more focused on the technicalities of who is right and who is wrong, and refuse to open up to and accept another persons perspective.
We are not sheep. We are an intellectually advance race, and can decide for ourselves what we truly feel is right... speaking our minds is not going to change that. What we shouldn't do is degrade another persons faith. Yes I am a Christian, and i love to learn about everyone else's faith, and why they believe what they do. Sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I don't. An athiest once said, " I don't know what happens after I die, but I know I shouldn't hurt people or decieve them, so I don't." If it works for him, why can't it be as simple as that. There is no need to be so hateful.

[Maddhattter]

For the most part, we are all the same.

I'll agree with you here.

Whether you are christian, muslim, some of the hindu, atheist, etc. When we believe in something, whether you like it or not, you are choosing a side.

FIFY

We agree on this, albeit after the changes above are made. What you seem intent on misrepresenting is that atheism is not choosing a side. It's simply an assertion that theists have failed to adequately met their burden of proof. It is not the assertion that no god/gods exist, only the assertion that there is no reason to believe that they do. The majority of atheists will gladly state that a god/gods/unicorns/bigfoot/tooth fairy/living garden gnomes might exist but will not believe that they do until it can be proven. Until it is proven, atheists aren't buying what your selling. This does not mean they are buying something else.

Every god, in which ever religion, ( whether true or not ) tells us to love and respect all.

No, they don't. The only common denominator is that they all demand that we worship and pay tribute to them. Beyond that, they all call for wildly different behaviors and interactions between people.

Take, for example, the Norse gods. There are people that still actively worship them and they do not tell people to love and respect all.

Then of course you have the devil, which I will never understand how anyone could worship that thing, calls for the complete opposite... It seeks death and destruction...

Satanists disagree. In fact, Satan only has 10 documented kills. Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. So, to claim that the devil seeks death and destruction is not supported by the proposed evidence.

The difference between us ( regardless of our faith ) is that some are more open-minded and are able to understand that just because we know in our heart that we ourselves are right, it doesn't give us the right to disrespect or dishonor anothers faith if it does not hurt anyone.

Deciding that you have found the right answer based on nothing more than happy feelings != open minded.

Deciding that you want to waive your right to free speech != open minded.

Faith does not exist in a vacuum and it motivates and colors actions. Considering the vast amount of terrible things called for by all religions, there is no faith that does not hurt anyone.

Where as others (whether narrow-minded or extremists ) are more focused on the technicalities of who is right and who is wrong, and refuse to open up to and accept another persons perspective.

Neither the narrow-minded nor the extremists are focused on who is right and wrong. They, like you, have already decided that they have the right answer and act in full accordance with what their faith actually says not what it's interpreted to say.

Funny, contrary to your implication, this takes you right out of the open-minded category and places you directly into the narrow-minded or extremists category.

We are not sheep. We are an intellectually advance race, and can decide for ourselves what we truly feel is right... speaking our minds is not going to change that.

No one has argued this. However, what you "truly feel is right" has no bearing on what is actually in line with reality. So, I agree with this, even though it's completely irrelevant to the conversation here.

What we shouldn't do is degrade another persons faith.

When their faith is deserving of derision, I would state that it should be degraded.

Yes I am a Christian, and i love to learn about everyone else's faith, and why they believe what they do. Sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I don't.

I've no problem with this. However, the situation here has you giving no inquiries on what people believe or why. Only that, at best, somebody is a terrible skeptic or, at worst, a liar.

An athiest once said, " I don't know what happens after I die, but I know I shouldn't hurt people or decieve them, so I don't." If it works for him, why can't it be as simple as that. There is no need to be so hateful.

From all I've seen here, Racr has neither acted in a way that would actually deceive anyone, nor hurt anyone in any meaningful way.

[talisman]

I've always said Satan is probably just a completely misunderstood dude.

[Maddhattter]

I've always said Satan is probably just a completely misunderstood dude.

While I've never been terribly fond of internet memes, 'Good Guy Lucifer' is always one of my favorites.

[racrguy]

For the most part, we are all the same. Whether you are christian, muslim, hindu, athiest, exc. When we believe in something, whether you like it or not, you are choosing a side.

Can things not be true regardless of belief in them? Evolution is true but a lot of theists believe in creation.

Every god, in which ever religion, ( whether true or not ) tells us to love and respect all.

You need to do more research on your gods, there are plenty of gods that don't portray that message.

Then of course you have the devil, which I will never understand how anyone could worship that thing, calls for the complete opposite... It seeks death and destruction...

Yet you worship a god that has wiped clean the face of the earth with the exception of one family and a boat full of animals. Tell me more of this "seeks death and destruction."

The difference between us ( regardless of our faith ) is that some are more open-minded and are able to understand that just because we know in our heart that we ourselves are right,

It doesn't matter what you "know in your heart" it's what is true and can be proven.

it doesn't give us the right to disrespect or dishonor anothers faith if it does not hurt anyone.

Except that it does, nowhere are you given the right of respect or honor. Faith allows the justification for a myriad of horrible things. Look at the recent dealings of Pentecostal preachers telling people with HIV to stop getting treatment and to allow god to heal them, or the two children of Catherine and Herbert Schiable who are now dead of easily curable ailments because of their parents faith in god.

Where as others (whether narrow-minded or extremists ) are more focused on the technicalities of who is right and who is wrong, and refuse to open up to and accept another persons perspective.

Who's to say that the people who once had your perspective and now discard it are narrow minded? I'd say the people that look at the evidence and draw their conclusions accordingly are more open minded than those who simply believe "because they know in their heart that they themselves are right."

We are not sheep.

That's not what the bible says. (John 10, Isaiah 53:6)

We are an intellectually advance race,

Only some of us. And I think species is the word you're looking for.

and can decide for ourselves what we truly feel is right...

What you feel is right does not make it true or correct.

speaking our minds is not going to change that.

You've never had a discussions with someone and changed your mind on anything? What's that you said about narrow-minded again?

What we shouldn't do is degrade another persons faith.

Why not? What about your faith is above ridicule and scrutiny?

Yes I am a Christian, and i love to learn about everyone else's faith, and why they believe what they do. Sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I don't.

When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

An athiest once said, " I don't know what happens after I die, but I know I shouldn't hurt people or decieve them, so I don't." If it works for him, why can't it be as simple as that.

Except, you're trying to deceive people with these obviously biased and most likely made up stories.

There is no need to be so hateful.

There is no hatred, there is only an opposing viewpoint to what you're positing. You just don't like the manner in which I express that viewpoint. Much like the way the universe looks at you, you are viewed in a manner of indifference

[racrguy]

I've always said Satan is probably just a completely misunderstood dude.

For all we know, if the two characters of the bible actually exist, maybe Jesus is the evil one and Lucifer was the good one. Possibly Christianity is the work of the devil and all of these poor people are being deceived by the evil one.


I wonder how one reconciles these thoughts, only getting one side of the story and all.

[4.6coupe]

Once again you guys pick and chose to deliberately butcher what i posted to your satisfaction... Not to worry. We'll all find out in the end.

So be it.

[racrguy]

Once again you guys pick and chose to deliberately butcher what i posted to your satisfaction... Not to worry. We'll all find out in the end.

So be it.

If you thought out your nonsense and made good arguments that aren't easy to pick apart or need clarification, they wouldn't be butchered.

If you continue to post nonsense, I will continue to "deliberately butcher" it. Your theology has been weighed and measured and has been deemed to be woefully inadequate. I can post hundreds if not thousands of christian deconversion stories, but I don't. You know why? Because it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove one side wrong and the other side right, all it means is that people changed their minds on one question in life. So, you can take your happy feel good stories that help you justify your beliefs and keep them to yourself. They don't bring any new information to the discussion, they don't bring forth any new argument to be thought through. It's useless anecdotal information.

I also like how you didn't address ANY of the points that were made.

[4.6coupe]

If you thought out your nonsense and made good arguments that aren't easy to pick apart or need clarification, they wouldn't be butchered.

If you continue to post nonsense, I will continue to "deliberately butcher" it. Your theology has been weighed and measured and has been deemed to be woefully inadequate. I can post hundreds if not thousands of christian deconversion stories, but I don't. You know why? Because it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove one side wrong and the other side right, all it means is that people changed their minds on one question in life. So, you can take your happy feel good stories that help you justify your beliefs and keep them to yourself. They don't bring any new information to the discussion, they don't bring forth any new argument to be thought through. It's useless anecdotal information.

I also like how you didn't address ANY of the points that were made.

Whats to argue?! God Almighty exists, the Bible IS the word of God, Jesus died for your sins here on earth, end of story.

[lowthreeohz]

^- brilliant

[SamTex]

Whats to argue?! God Almighty exists, the Bible IS the word of God, Jesus died for your sins here on earth, end of story.

Best thing I've read all day. I bet you like circles.

[talisman]

Whats to argue?! God Almighty exists, the Bible IS the word of God, Jesus died for your sins here on earth, end of story.

Oh. Well why didn't you just deliver that delightfully insightful post to begin with. You've convinced me.

[Maddhattter]

Once again you guys pick and chose to deliberately butcher what i posted to your satisfaction...

This is how I can tell that, in contrast with what you've said, you really don't have any interest in learning what anyone else believes or why. I've come in, turned your monologue into a dialog, and you just ignore the lot of it and dismiss it out of hand. You make no attempt at understanding where I'm coming from, nor do you make any attempt to clear up any misunderstandings I might have about the point/s you were trying to make.

You also claim I "pick and chose"? Can you even give one example of a point you made in that last post that I didn't rebut? After all, if I did as you imply, you should easily be able to restate the point that I missed.

Not to worry. We'll all find out in the end.

So be it.

Not necessarily. The only way we can find out "in the end" is if there is an afterlife. If, in fact, I am correct, we will be unable to learn anything, as everything identifiable as you or I will cease to exist. After all, neither of us worship the God Emperor of Mankind, so he will surely cast our souls into the Warp to be tortured for the eternity of an instant by the daemons of Khorne before the followers of Slaanesh devour our souls to power it's own hedonism.

Whats to argue?! God Almighty exists, the Bible IS the word of God, Jesus died for your sins here on earth, end of story.

So, we're back to square one?

Okay, if this is the truth, you should easily be able to prove it to me. However, before you try, I'd suggest referring to the What makes the bible true? thread, or pretty much any thread in this sub-forum by TX Redneck, so you'll know what has already been covered and why it is not sufficient evidence to believe in anything.

Also, this x2:

I can post hundreds if not thousands of christian deconversion stories, but I don't. You know why? Because it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove one side wrong and the other side right, all it means is that people changed their minds on one question in life. So, you can take your happy feel good stories that help you justify your beliefs and keep them to yourself. They don't bring any new information to the discussion, they don't bring forth any new argument to be thought through. It's useless anecdotal information.

[4.6coupe]

My original post was a TESTIMONY... but thats ok. I didn't realize you all were going to turn this into another debate.

[Maddhattter]

My original post was a TESTIMONY... but thats ok. I didn't realize you all were going to turn this into another debate.

What's there to debate? Testimony isn't worth a thing when it comes to demonstrating something's existence. So, that would mean your original point isn't worth a thing in debating something's existence.

So, there is no debate. You brought nothing of substance to the table.

Edit: As an added note, you've still not shown that I "pick and chose" at your post to "to deliberately butcher what i posted to my satisfaction". Only that you don't want a dialog that allows you to investigate what others believe and why. Your actions indicate that all you want is a monologue.