Commander Cut 'N' Run

[talisman]

"Pearl Harbor didn't work out so we got you with tape decks."

[Vertnut]

"Pearl Harbor didn't work out so we got you with tape decks."

...and televisions, and CARS!

[exlude]

Right, the last time we used scorched earth was Japan. Not aware of a lot of Japanese terrorists. By definition, scorched earth leaves no one to attack you.

Scorched earth is not killing absolutely everyone. It's typically the devastation of infastructure and less regard for collateral damage. This is exactly what the Russians did in Afghanistan, and exactly what we are working against. I'm not saying we have it perfect (we damn sure don't), but we are succeeding far more than the Russians by almost every measurement.

You're confusing correlation with causation in your Japan/Afghanistan comparison. They are not the same culture, not the same enemy. It would be silly to expect both to behave the same. The Japanese respected and revered their semi-divine leader, and accepted his unconditional surrender as their own. Afghanis have no national identity and very little respect for government, comparitively.

Further, you're forgetting Vietnam.... We targetted a large amount of Vietnamese infastructure and had little regard for their civilian populace until later in the war. It cost us in multiplying the enemy.

To repeat myself, I agree we need to be more decisive and forceful. But if we are fighting the COIN fight, we can't just go in and kill everything. You may think that we shouldn't be used in COIN conflicts, but that doesn't matter. We are used in COIN conflicts, so we've got to continue getting better at it.

[BP]

I'm not sure how Gen. Odierno managed to make it this far without some kind of scandal taking him down but he gets my support. Watch the video of his spat with Duncan Hunter. Senior officers usually don't get to speak their minds in congressional hearings and keep their job.

He called the tank program what it is, political pork barrelling. The Army is being forced to buy a bunch of refurbed M1A2s that they have no use for yet are being denied funds to develop a secure network. So Ohio military contractors get to keep their people working building something that'll be obsolete in 3 years while the US Army is told to use Apple and Google for secure communications.

[Forever_frost]

You're right, we target infrastructure. That doesn't work as Afghanistan doesn't have much. i'm saying kill everyone in every area we come to. Either we fight a war or we don't and if we are called out, we salt the earth, poison the wells and kill everything with a heartbeat.

The COIN fight doesn't work as it requires your hands to be tied far more than theirs. Working along side them allows green on blue attacks and rebuilding their crap means we are scared to destroy it when they attack us from a building because...well, we JUST rebuilt it.

[DallasSleeper]

Frost, Early in OIF I was hit from a school at like 3AM. We countered and I ended up ordering my tank through the wall and into the building. I would guess in American Dollars I well exceeded 100K to that building and wall. I talked to our civil affairs clowns the next day and was laughing about it with a half hearted apology.

In a very serious voice the NCOIC said back to me, "No, this is why we are here, you guys do what you have to. We will get any damage repaired."

What a waste of our dollars. If the insurgents want to use it to fight from, I am going to destroy it.

[Forever_frost]

Oh we had guys with rucksacks walking around paying everyone off for everything.

[racrguy]

Frost. You're fucking crazy.

[Forever_frost]

Frost. You're fucking crazy.

I fail to see relevance.

[exlude]

Frost is right on that. Our S1 in theater signed for a metric shit ton of cash that was meant to pay off people. "Oops, your kid grabbed grenades off our range then they blew up and killed him? Here's $1000."

[racrguy]

Frost is right on that. Our S1 in theater signed for a metric shit ton of cash that was meant to pay off people. "Oops, your kid grabbed grenades off our range then they blew up and killed him? Here's $1000."

I have no doubt that we're paying people off left and right.

Jim, I'm saying you're crazy because the shit you say is fucking crazy.

[AMJ]

whats the old sayin "kill em all let god sort em out"

[Forever_frost]

I have no doubt that we're paying people off left and right.

Jim, I'm saying you're crazy because the shit you say is fucking crazy.

Unless it has to do with war or the constitution in which cases I'm 100% accurate. War was never meant to be long term and friendly. War was meant to be harsh, destructive and the stuff of nightmares so that people are reluctant to enter into it because of the high price.

[racrguy]

Unless it has to do with war or the constitution in which cases I'm 100% accurate.

Not so much, but I'm not going to argue with you about it either.