Is Luke 12:10 correct?

[ELVIS]

Just want to know if I need to plan an intervention!

i'll stop by and pick up anton on the way!!!!!! we gotta stop this!!!!!!!!

god bless.

[racrguy]

You're still latching on to that one word though. No thoughts on the repentant heart? No thoughts on the grace and mercy promised when one accepts the Holy Spirit? No thoughts on why Paul was one of Jesus' apostles if he had been a blasphemer earlier in life?

Welcome to the world of biblical contradiction! Not only does the verse contradict itself, but it contradicts what you're saying. Never is not ever, it does not mean never *with conditions.

Notice I said "been a blasphemer" and not "blasphemed."

It doesn't much matter what you say, because the wording in the Mark verse is clear, it doesn't mention a time frame outside of never. One must make the assumption that they meant what they said.

Why can blaspheme not be a state or an ongoing thing?

Who said it can't be an ongoing thing? It is, after all, a verb. Although I would use blasphemy when talking about being in the state of blaspheming.

To reject God (blaspheme) and be unrepentant is the one eternal/mortal (final) sin.

Ok. If it's an eternal (final) sin, then the sin never goes away, and one can't be forgiven for it.

You do not have to remain in that state though.

This isn't like the " once a sheep fucker always a sheep fucker" joke. God always wants you. Gods grace is always there for the taking. The rejection of Him makes it "final" and unchanging for as long as you don't change.

All this is well and good, but then why would they use the term never? Did a word better suited for the task not exist? Piss poor communication is to blame for this

[Denny]

It's not a contradiction, bro. You're a blasphemer until you stop, repent of your ways and ask for forgiveness. That wipes the slate clean. No longer a blasphemer.

I know this concept sounds illogical, but there really isn't much to it. Our forgiveness is absolute. We didn't earn it, we don't deserve it and we can't easrn it. It is nothing more than a gift.

Now if you don't accept this gift, then you wind up before God in Judgement with every sin you've ever committed being brought against you. See how that isn't going to work out well?

[racrguy]

It's not a contradiction, bro. You're a blasphemer until you stop, repent of your ways and ask for forgiveness. That wipes the slate clean. No longer a blasphemer.

Except that it is a contradiction, and you can ask forgiveness all you want and you aren't getting it, according to that passage.

I know this concept sounds illogical, but there really isn't much to it. Our forgiveness is absolute. We didn't earn it, we don't deserve it and we can't easrn it. It is nothing more than a gift.

Now if you don't accept this gift, then you wind up before God in Judgement with every sin you've ever committed being brought against you. See how that isn't going to work out well?

I don't even know what to say to this. You're asking for forgiveness from a being that's nothing more than an egomaniacal monster. If anything he should be begging for our forgiveness.

It sounds illogical because it is illogical.

[Strychnine]

Matt, I've never seen you make any religious posts until the last couple of months. What's new?

lulz, eric is concerned that you may be reading the bible!

god bless.

Just want to know if I need to plan an intervention!

No, it's cool, I can stop whenever I want!
(don't worry about me, I'm exactly where I need to be . Just branching out in my discussion topics. If I get in the computer forum please call for help)


On topic:

Don't get me wrong - I'm no expert and will never claim to be one; just jumping in a discussion (and I feel I should disclaim every post in this subforum with "I'm not going to lose sleep over anyone's opinions in here so don't bother getting worked up.")



How about this: Maybe you're right. Satan was the ultimate blasphemer and he's pretty much fucked forever.



Back up one line:

Luke 12:9-10
9 But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


It's clear that blasphemy here isn't just one saying, "Man, the Holy Spirit is a dick today!" This is a permenent rejection.

So it's unforgivable. Reject Jesus and you can still turn it around. Reject God and you still might make it. Reject the Holy Spirit and it's game over.

Well, what does it matter? The act of permanently turning away shows that you don't care about the consequences anway.



But, is it really doublespeak? Those with a heart for God would not blaspheme to begin with so forgiveness is theirs. Those who would blaspheme would [by choice] not be "in the running" for the forgiveness anyway... their eyes and ears are intentionally sealed so all the stuff about grace and mercy isn't directed toward them.

God will forgive any and all sins that you bring to him with a genuinely repentent heart. A true blasphemer would never bring that sin before God and would certainly never be bothered by asking for forgiveness. Ergo God never has to worry about forgiving for it. Easy breezy.
If a blasphemer were to ever come to God looking for salvation then he had shitty convictions and was never a true blasphemer to begin with.


Yes, that plays back into the 'one time statement' vs 'state of being / person's true heart' argument and we're just going have to disagree on that one.




Isaiah 1:18-20
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the Lord. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land; 20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

[Denny]

Except that it is a contradiction, and you can ask forgiveness all you want and you aren't getting it, according to that passage.



I don't even know what to say to this. You're asking for forgiveness from a being that's nothing more than an egomaniacal monster. If anything he should be begging for our forgiveness.

It sounds illogical because it is illogical.

So, why do you even want to discuss the topic when all you want to do is claim He either doesn't exist or point out fault ( which in actuality, you consistently fail to do)?

If someone like the OP quotes a verse and asks to elaborate on the meaning, you do nothing but tear down every answer (again, with hogwash reasoning).

I know Yale isn't a believer either, but what I got from him asking about a verse is that he wanted someone to further expand on it. Go pull up one of the "Does God exist" threads and put your bullshit in there, please.

[racrguy]

So, why do you even want to discuss the topic when all you want to do is claim He either doesn't exist or point out fault ( which in actuality, you consistently fail to do)?

The only assertion you made that is correct is that I point out fault. You keep saying that Maddhattter and myself try to claim he doesn't exist, in which you've ALREADY been corrected on, and you claim that we fail at pointing out the faults. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make the criticisms any less valid, it just means you don't agree with them. And that's fine, everyone has the right to be wrong.

If someone like the OP quotes a verse and asks to elaborate on the meaning, you do nothing but tear down every answer (again, with hogwash reasoning).

There you go, making assertions about my statements you can't back up with logic or solid reasoning. I merely point out flaws. If you don't want me to "tear down every answer," come up with a better answer that I can't tear down.

I know Yale isn't a believer either, but what I got from him asking about a verse is that he wanted someone to further expand on it. Go pull up one of the "Does God exist" threads and put your bullshit in there, please.

Translation: "I don't have a good response, so just shut up!" I point out contradiction, you say it isn't contradictory while looking at the subject matter subjectively instead of objectively.

[racrguy]

Back up one line:

Luke 12:9-10
9 But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


It's clear that blasphemy here isn't just one saying, "Man, the Holy Spirit is a dick today!" This is a permenent rejection.

So it's unforgivable. Reject Jesus and you can still turn it around. Reject God and you still might make it. Reject the Holy Spirit and it's game over.

Well, what does it matter? The act of permanently turning away shows that you don't care about the consequences anway.

Question: Do you believe in the holy trinity?

Isaiah 1:18-20
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the Lord. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land; 20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

In other words "worship me or die." Fuck that, I won't be given those kinds of ultimatums by anyone/thing. That's one hell of an ego this god has. What a prick.

[talisman]

Sean, you try WAY too hard at this shit, dude. Relax.

[racrguy]

Sean, you try WAY too hard at this shit, dude. Relax.

I'm bored, I like arguing, and what's a surfire way to argue? Religion and politics.

[talisman]

I'm bored, I like arguing, and what's a surfire way to argue? Religion and politics.

Who are you telling? I'm saying sometimes you don't need to use a bazooka to swat a fly.


...and I'm not painting any side as a bazooka or any side as a fly here, either, just using an analogy.

[racrguy]

Who are you telling? I'm saying sometimes you don't need to use a bazooka to swat a fly.


...and I'm not painting any side as a bazooka or any side as a fly here, either, just using an analogy.

I misunderstood your first post, I hate it when I do that.

I will say that the 'splosion is always cool from using a bazooka.

[The King]

I'm bored, I like arguing, and what's a surfire way to argue? Religion and politics.

Too bad you're not any good at arguing religion, if that's what you call what you are posting in this thread. Now, copying from Google searches is something you seem reasonably good at, but any ten-year-old with a tablet can do that.

[Sean88gt]

Mayfield, you seem far more concerned with winning than you do listening to the "opposition" and seem to keep circling around the same points.

[Strychnine]

In other words "worship me or die." Fuck that, I won't be given those kinds of ultimatums by anyone/thing. That's one hell of an ego this god has. What a prick.

You're going to die either way.
His ultimatum is inevitable death (atheism doesn't save you from that) or an eternal life when you're done on Earth.

Your death is promised by the universe, but God is an egotistical prick for giving you a choice?


(yes, the Isaiah quote is OT so it's a bit more vengeful God than we have now after Christ)