Is Luke 12:10 correct?

[The King]

Did you get the same thing from my response as him?

Not that I'm aware of.

[slow06]

The bible verse says you will never be forgiven, you effectively said that you can still get into heaven if you accept jesus' sacrifice before you die.

The way the bible verse is written there is no opportunity for "salvation" because in order to be saved you must be forgiven.

The way I understand this generally "blasphemy of the holy spirit" is simply continued rejection of Christ, either until death or I guess the second coming. It's basically saying if you never choose to accept Christ in your life you will not be saved.

Sounds like you are thinking of it as a moment or random point in life, whereas I have always though of it as a result of the judgement in the end.

[racrguy]

The way I understand this generally "blasphemy of the holy spirit" is simply continued rejection of Christ, either until death or I guess the second coming. It's basically saying if you never choose to accept Christ in your life you will not be saved.

Sounds like you are thinking of it as a moment or random point in life, whereas I have always though of it as a result of the judgement in the end.

Are we arbitrarily defining words now?

[slow06]

Are we arbitrarily defining words now?

Which part do you think I'm arbitrarily defining?

[Strychnine]

Are we arbitrarily defining words now?

Are we cherry picking the words we choose to focus on now?

Mark 3:29 KJV
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

Main Entry: threatened
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: endangered
Synonyms: exposed, imperiled, in danger , jeopardized, unprotected, unsafe, vulnerable, warned
Antonyms: invulnerable, protected, damnation.

While having the heart of a blasphemer you are exposed, imperiled, unprotected, etc.

"In danger" yes, but the matter is not finalized until Judgement.

It reads as final to me. It doesn't get more final than "never."

To accept the Holy Spirit is to accept God's mercy and grace. But it has to be your choice. Free will dictates that He cannot force his grace on you.

As long as you blaspheme you are denying Him and the end of your path will be a dark place. If/when you accept the Holy Spirit in your heart you are also gifted that forgiveness.
Unrepentantly blaspheme your way through life and its final. Change and accept God into your life and you are no longer in danger.


If it were 'final' then we wouldn't have this:

Paul, one of the Apostles, was a ruthless persecutor of Christians before his conversion...

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.
(1 Timothy 1:12-16 NIV)

[racrguy]

Which part do you think I'm arbitrarily defining?

Blasphemy.

Are we cherry picking the words we choose to focus on now?



Main Entry: threatened
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: endangered
Synonyms: exposed, imperiled, in danger , jeopardized, unprotected, unsafe, vulnerable, warned
Antonyms: invulnerable, protected, damnation.

While having the heart of a blasphemer you are exposed, imperiled, unprotected, etc.





To accept the Holy Spirit is to accept God's mercy and grace. But it has to be your choice. Free will dictates that He cannot force his grace on you.

As long as you blaspheme you are denying Him and end of your path will be a dark place. If/when you accept the Holy Spirit in your heart you are also gifted that forgiveness.
Unrepentantly blaspheme your way through life and its final. Change and accept God into your life and you are no longer in danger.


If it were 'final' then we wouldn't have this:

Paul, one of the Apostles, was a ruthless persecutor of Christians before his conversion...

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.
(1 Timothy 1:12-16 NIV)

No, the second part is irrelevant to the first, and to be frank, they're contradictory. If one blasphemes does that mean he can get into heaven without forgiveness, are they talking about a "one strike you're out" deal, or is it an ongoing thing?

Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a religious deity or the irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy

blas·phe·my
noun \ˈblas-fə-mē\
plural blas·phe·mies
Definition of BLASPHEMY
1
a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2
: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy

blasphemy (n.)
early 13c., from Old French blasfemie "blasphemy," from Late Latin blasphemia, from Greek blasphemia "a speaking ill, impious speech, slander," from blasphemein "to speak evil of." Second element is pheme "utterance" (see fame); first element uncertain, perhaps related to blaptikos "hurtful," though blax "slack (in body and mind), stupid" also has been suggested.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=blasphemy

blas·pheme
verb \blas-ˈfēm, ˈblas-ˌ\
blas·phemed blas·phem·ing
Definition of BLASPHEME
transitive verb
1
: to speak of or address with irreverence
2
: revile, abuse

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blaspheme

blaspheme (v.)
mid-14c., from Old French blasfemer "to blaspheme" (14c., Modern French blasphémer), from Church Latin blasphemare (also in Late Latin "revile, reproach"), from Greek blasphemein "to speak lightly or amiss of sacred things, to slander," from blasphemos "evil-speaking" (see blasphemy). A reintroduction after the original word had been worn down and sense-shifted to blame. Related: Blasphemed; blaspheming.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=blaspheme

[slow06]

To most accurately interpret translated text, namely specific words in the bible in this case, you need to go back to the original language. This doesn't make a huge difference in this case, the definitions for "blasphemy" are more or less the same here, but we can't always just rely on Webster to get to the original meaning.

I think I would agree with the definition racr posted for blasphemy. IMO to reject the offer of salvation would be the most extreme way to show a lack of reverence toward the holy spirit.

I was going to use the Saul/Paul example as well. This guy actively killed Christians, repented, and was shown grace.

I wish I could explain it better, but really the bottom line is I think if you are still breathing Jesus Christ's sacrifice applies to you. I think grace is waiting no matter what you have done.

[racrguy]

To most accurately interpret translated text, namely specific words in the bible in this case, you need to go back to the original language. This doesn't make a huge difference in this case, the definitions for "blasphemy" are more or less the same here, but we can't always just rely on Webster to get to the original meaning.

That's why I included the etymology, to trace the words roots back through history to get an understanding of what the word meant in the time the bible was written.

[slow06]

That's why I included the etymology, to trace the words roots back through history to get an understanding of what the word meant in the time the bible was written.

So you did. Admittedly, I saw "old french" and ignored the rest thinking it was an interpretation of French or Latin roots. Didn't even notice the Greek part in there.

[The King]

The Holy Spirit, as part of the Holy Trinity, is the manner via which God communicates with us today. As Strychnine wrote, the Holy Spirit is accepted in your heart, or in some cases rejected by virtue of the free will granted to mankind by God. This rejection is the blasphemy referenced in the posts above, and simply because one has rejected the Holy Spirit does not mean that one cannot later accept the Holy Spirit and be saved, as slow06 pointed out in the Saul/Paul conversion.

This is my understanding of the subject.

[racrguy]

So you did. Admittedly, I saw "old french" and ignored the rest thinking it was an interpretation of French or Latin roots. Didn't even notice the Greek part in there.

This is why you should read every word I post here in the theology corner, I've often included information you would have missed if you just skimmed.

[Strychnine]

You're still latching on to that one word though. No thoughts on the repentant heart? No thoughts on the grace and mercy promised when one accepts the Holy Spirit? No thoughts on why Paul was one of Jesus' apostles if he had been a blasphemer earlier in life?




Notice I said "been a blasphemer" and not "blasphemed."

Why can blaspheme not be a state or an ongoing thing?
To reject God (blaspheme) and be unrepentant is the one eternal/mortal (final) sin. You do not have to remain in that state though.

This isn't like the " once a sheep fucker always a sheep fucker" joke. God always wants you. Gods grace is always there for the taking. The rejection of Him makes it "final" and unchanging for as long as you don't change.

[talisman]

Matt, I've never seen you make any religious posts until the last couple of months. What's new?

[ELVIS]

lulz, eric is concerned that you may be reading the bible!

god bless.

[talisman]

Just want to know if I need to plan an intervention!