What a dog-rocket of biblical proportions!!

[KBScobravert]

^^lol at 00:57 "that is why you are here. To become disciplined" as they all bob and look around when he walks past.

[ceyko]

hahaha, I think that Army portion must be from Fort Jackson or something. It's been too many years, but it was CLEAR recruits from Jackson vs Fort Leonard Wood and Sill. Downright disgrace to be honest.

[Jester]

^^lol at 00:57 "that is why you are here. To become disciplined" as they all bob and look around when he walks past.

lol seriously. You didnt pull that shit in the the Corps.....fuckin DI's have eyes in the back of their heads.

[exlude]

He is saying that alot of guys wanted to be Marines but felt that maybe they couldnt do it so they went with another branch.

Yeah, no.

The biggest difference between the Marines and Army is ego. That's about it. Unfortunately, both branches draw from the same pool and you can only do so much to change that.

[Jester]

Yeah, no.

The biggest difference between the Marines and Army is ego. That's about it. Unfortunately, both branches draw from the same pool and you can only do so much to change that.

WAY wrong. We would always do runs with the Army when I was stationed on their bases...........and 90% (not an exaggeration at all) would drop out by mile 5. 100% of the Marines would finish the run no matter what the distance. The BIGGEST difference in the Marines and Army is training. End of story. There is absolutely no debating this. The Marines are FAR better trained. This has nothing to do with ego but is just a plain and simple fact. Those in the Army that move on to become Rangers receive that extra training that helps a ton.
I am not a runner. I hate running. I despise running, but Marines dont quit because we couldnt even begin to imagine what the fuck would happen if we did. So save that "the Army and Marines are the same" bullshit because it is complete and total bullshit.

[ceyko]

hahaha. Okay Jester.

I met a lot of great Marines in my time and I concur Marine training is better for REMFs - in CONUS. The reason being is no m/f mixed bullshit and the Marines are a little less PC than Army staff.

Combat Arms training - only one base I saw where it was mildly f'ed up and that was Ft. Hood - which seems like more of a dog and pony base than anything. (4ID, 1CAV, III Corp, Brigade this and brigade that) Some of the best I've seen were the units in Fort Lewis, and they were truly light infantry and do a great job.

I can say equivocally having worked with all branches that the Marines are not "better trained" in 90% of what has to get done out there. I would put an Army Infantryman up against a Marine any day, but I'd not bet on either one.

One big one I'd give to the Marines is all-in-all the Marine officer is a cut above a standard Army officer. That's politics, which sucks balls. An Army officer is always trying to be PC - which is trickle down from above. Marine officers seem slightly less rank eccentric, a little quicker to get out what they want, generally more motivated and involved in their commands (whether platoon or above).

At the end of the day we can swap stories all day long two of each branch bailing the other out. So don't give me that bullshit.

Now, I know you'll spout off some more. Until you've worked with both for years and see all the truths - you really have a small point of view on it all.

[Jester]

hahaha. Okay Jester.

I met a lot of great Marines in my time and I concur Marine training is better for REMFs - in CONUS. The reason being is no m/f mixed bullshit and the Marines are a little less PC than Army staff.

Combat Arms training - only one base I saw where it was mildly f'ed up and that was Ft. Hood - which seems like more of a dog and pony base than anything. (4ID, 1CAV, III Corp, Brigade this and brigade that) Some of the best I've seen were the units in Fort Lewis, and they were truly light infantry and do a great job.

I can say equivocally having worked with all branches that the Marines are not "better trained" in 90% of what has to get done out there. I would put an Army Infantryman up against a Marine any day, but I'd not bet on either one.

One big one I'd give to the Marines is all-in-all the Marine officer is a cut above a standard Army officer. That's politics, which sucks balls. An Army officer is always trying to be PC - which is trickle down from above. Marine officers seem slightly less rank eccentric, a little quicker to get out what they want, generally more motivated and involved in their commands (whether platoon or above).

At the end of the day we can swap stories all day long two of each branch bailing the other out. So don't give me that bullshit.

Now, I know you'll spout off some more. Until you've worked with both for years and see all the truths - you really have a small point of view on it all.

lol, okay.

[Forever_frost]

Hadn't even graduated Army Basic Training and they call you Ranger? That is funny. When I went to MCRD San Diego for Boot Camp I was Recruit the entire time. Couldn't even refer to myself as a Marine until I graduated. This goes back to the tradition thing Jester talks about.

Oh and I went in weighing 130 at 17 and came out weight 135. I forged and hid a double rats tag and still couldn't eat enough. Oh, how I miss my youthful days.

I was in a Ranger platoon. They called all of us Ranger for motivation

[exlude]

WAY wrong. We would always do runs with the Army when I was stationed on their bases...........and 90% (not an exaggeration at all) would drop out by mile 5. 100% of the Marines would finish the run no matter what the distance. The BIGGEST difference in the Marines and Army is training. End of story. There is absolutely no debating this. The Marines are FAR better trained. This has nothing to do with ego but is just a plain and simple fact. Those in the Army that move on to become Rangers receive that extra training that helps a ton.
I am not a runner. I hate running. I despise running, but Marines dont quit because we couldnt even begin to imagine what the fuck would happen if we did. So save that "the Army and Marines are the same" bullshit because it is complete and total bullshit.

lol, okay.

[KBScobravert]

I am biased. I am a Marine ('94-'98). I always wanted to be a Marine. I spent my high school years in an Air Force ROTC (only thing around) preparing to be a Marine. I had plenty of branches to pick from. For me there was only one choice. It was solidified when I saw guys I was in school with join the Army between their Junior and Senior year and go to boot camp then. There was a night and day difference between them our Senior year and those that had already graduated high school and graduated as Marines. These were folks I knew both before and after their training. The Marines stood out. It was done, I joined the Marines.

Fast forward to me being a civilian in an active war zone. I have been to 35 bases in theater (90% have been Army controlled or joint Army/AF as is BAF). I have seen dozens upon dozens of Amry units over 7 years here. I have worked with the Army from the grunt soldier all the way to the General Officer. From the headquarters folks to the 11b filling sand bags. From one unit to the next they almost all but refuse to cooperate with each other. Each leaving unit thinks the incoming unit is a bunch of shit bags and feeling is reversed likewise. I have watched it over and over. They refuse to left seat right seat conduct hand offs. The feeling is, hurry and get out of my AO so I can fix all the shit you fucked up. After about 3-4 months they finally get themselves spun up on where they should have been when they first got there if they would have taken advice from the out going unit. It is cyclic and detrimental to the actual mission here ....... but it is the way business is done it seems. Even worse is, the civilians are the constant that they should fall back on. But yet, we make suggestions based on personal historical data and are told we don't know what we are talking about........yep.

I have a lot of respect for the Grunt.....even if he is a soldier . A lot of respect. I would give anything in the world to stay on bases with nothing but the "grunts" in the Army. But it is not in the cards and I am relegated to bases where I hump a desk. Some of my fondest memories out here have been on force protection projects sitting next to Joe filling sand bags with him and showing them the wonders that is the HESCO bastion, eating chow with them, playing video games with them etc.

I still deal with the Army daily. My interaction with Marines out here is very limited since they control the south and I am in the North. The Army grunts that live on the COPs and smaller FOBs are the ones that I love to support. They are appreciative for what we bring to them and when presented with problems they handle them. The big Army, which is the majority hence BIG Army, take a problem and hold a meeting next week about it. Marines take a problem and go kill it and come back for chow and a card game.

In 2009, I was in a convoy catching a ride from a tiny little base of 5 US troops where I was stuck for a month. Hell there was even a Marine among them as an Army Major now. Back to my point. 4 hours into the ride we hit an IED. They say everyone has a plan till you get punched in the mouth, well, we got punched. I was with a joint unit of AF and Army (embedded training team 'ETT'). The AF guys fell right apart and lost their shit. We weren't even in contact, just an IED in the middle of nowhere with no odds of an ambush. There was close air support on station with in minutes and yet this Airman was crying on the side of the road. Wasn't even his truck that got hit, it was mine. We didn't even suffer as much as a scratch on a single person. The one Army (11b) handled well. As a SGT he took charge and stood up a perimeter. The rest of the folks just wondered around like they were lost. It was fucking cluster fuck. As a civilian I had to start making gentle suggestions such as "don't swap that good 240 for this bad .50cal. without test firing it" The gun was in our truck and blew out of the turret and fucked the receiver up. Gun wouldn't even charge without me kickstarting the charging handle to clear it.

My problem with the Army is that the soldier I respect is fewer and far between the soldiers that I cringe to even look at (this is an exaggeration obviously but the point is still the same). The ones that hang out on the streets here and act like they are back in the hood slinging dope. I never see that with Marines nor did I ever when I was on active duty. I remember back as a Marine in Aberdeen, MD at the Proving Grounds. Fresh out of boot camp and MCT. At chow I would look around at all the "troops" in the Army and could not believe the way they acted, talked, walked etc. I was disgusted. I thought I was in Harlem or rap video. The no shaving chits that the Army had to issue just on that base alone had to far exceed what the Marines even ask for. Full on beards on some dirt bags in the Army there. Hell here on BAF I see even more of it. I can't even remember a Marine when i was on active duty having a no shaving chit. Oh, you get the bumps? Get some magic shave but don't come to work with shit growing on your face. The Army hands them out like paper plates in the chow line.

Even as a civilian I work with former Marines and former Army (mostly SF and Rangers)....there is still a divide in how each do their jobs. The Army guys bitch and moan and the Marines just get to it and get it over with.

These are my personal experiences and if you are in the Army and are offended, well sorry, blame your brethren. I have met a lot of real good dudes in the Army but I don't remember Marines being like this nor do I see it today.

[exlude]

Okay, long convoluted post and you still haven't answered the question at hand.

[KBScobravert]

Okay, long convoluted post and you still haven't answered the question at hand.

and the question would be?

[Cooter]

Who does number two work for?

[talisman]

Coast Guard could kick all of y'alls asses.

[ceyko]

These are my personal experiences and if you are in the Army and are offended, well sorry, blame your brethren. I have met a lot of real good dudes in the Army but I don't remember Marines being like this nor do I see it today.

Great post kbs. I was trying to avoid spilling the beans about things outside combat arms. (if I'm being honest)

I touched on it in my reply post to Jester - in my opinion, the support fields in the Army need an overhaul and IMHO, the #1 reason for the soup sandwiches is women mixed in.

If you were comparing combat arms to combat arms (anything from tankers (hate 'em) to light), your experience is hella different from mine generally speaking. I will concede that during down times the Army is less micromanaging them, but when the shit hits the fan they do a good job.

Support/REMF (I was one, radio/retrans, RATT rigs, EPLRS and networking) is where I'll openly admit the Army needs to improve, but it won't. My above reason is why I cringe when I see women being considered for combat roles, submarines and so on. I could not say it outloud when enlisted, but women were a huge reason I got out. I won't go down the path, but they have no place working with men in a military environment.

Anyway, that's the shameful truth. At the end of the day I still feel strongly that both branches do a good job. I also feel that both do a great job from a CA point of a view and are at least equal. I am not changing my opinion on that one.

REMFs - I'm sure you see it, there is one that makes up for the short comings of a few. It needs work, but it won't happen.

Also, I've said it in the past - the tore up REMFs stay in (generally speaking support jobs pay well outside of the military - but the soup sandwiches know their limitations), which does not help the situation.

Yeah, I'm biased a little too being prior Army. Marines themselves changed my opinion of them in some ways and reinforced others. Again, the Marine officer is VERY good too.