Where Oh Where Are the Paulbots?

[8mpg]

Ron Paul > you... at least he is a medical doctor

I kind of agree with him. Treatment for PTSD probably should be held in a doctors office, not on a live firing range. If this was just recreation and not a "treatment" of PTSD then Paul's comments shouldnt even offend you.

[Forever_frost]

You take just about everything that has to do with the military personally.

I do. It's very personal to me. Same as if something happened to your family you would be finding it personal. Then you have an outsider say that your brother deserved to be shot up by another family member simply because he served

[8mpg]

I do. It's very personal to me. Same as if something happened to your family you would be finding it personal. Then you have an outsider say that your brother deserved to be shot up by another family member simply because he served

I think you a reading way to far into it and take it way too personal. This isnt you, this isnt your "family". This is another guy who got killed when he shouldnt have. Being a military member doesnt make him different from anyone else.

[Forever_frost]

Ron Paul > you... at least he is a medical doctor

Ron Paul is better than me. Better? Can't say that. Cleaner hands maybe. I've taken lives. A lot of them. But then again, I also risked my own to provide security to an Iraqi family who were pinned down because they helped another platoon. Does all the good I've done since that day equal the lives I've taken? I don't know. From my guess it's no. I don't speak from a position of moral superiority, I have none. I am a monster and I know it. But I'm a monster who no longer wishes to reenter the field of battle such as they are.

When someone threatens my family, I am eager to resharpen my sword and shield. When a politician who ran his head that my older brother deserved to die, then I will wade into it. I've met Paul. Had several conversations with him and wouldn't have expected this of him.

I can tell you, this lost him the majority of the military vote. He's done and he just may have poisoned the well for his son as well.

[Forever_frost]

I think you a reading way to far into it and take it way too personal. This isnt you, this isnt your "family". This is another guy who got killed when he shouldnt have. Being a military member doesnt make him different from anyone else.

You wouldn't understand. Everyone who wears or has worn that uniform is family. All of us. When one of us is wounded, it subtracts from us all. Being a military member DOES make him different from anyone else. Military has it's own rules and it's own way of handling this. He should be turned over to the nearest base for punishment and then his name should never be written again.

This is very personal. 11 series or not. Army or not, everyone who takes that oath is my family and my family is long and has reached back to the very birth pains of this Republic. We honor our dead and avenge our brothers. When it's one of our own killing our own, well that requires special handling.

[8mpg]

Ron Paul is better than me. Better? Can't say that. Cleaner hands maybe. I've taken lives. A lot of them. But then again, I also risked my own to provide security to an Iraqi family who were pinned down because they helped another platoon. Does all the good I've done since that day equal the lives I've taken? I don't know. From my guess it's no. I don't speak from a position of moral superiority, I have none. I am a monster and I know it. But I'm a monster who no longer wishes to reenter the field of battle such as they are.

When someone threatens my family, I am eager to resharpen my sword and shield. When a politician who ran his head that my older brother deserved to die, then I will wade into it. I've met Paul. Had several conversations with him and wouldn't have expected this of him.

I can tell you, this lost him the majority of the military vote. He's done and he just may have poisoned the well for his son as well.

And this is where you wonder if someone with PTSD should have a gun or not. The crazy shit you just spewed out saying you wonder if you should go back to killing people because Ron Paul said something dumb. You are a perfect example of why you question "is this really a good idea?" when handing a loaded gun to someone with PTSD.

You wouldn't understand. Everyone who wears or has worn that uniform is family. All of us. When one of us is wounded, it subtracts from us all. Being a military member DOES make him different from anyone else. Military has it's own rules and it's own way of handling this. He should be turned over to the nearest base for punishment and then his name should never be written again.

This is very personal. 11 series or not. Army or not, everyone who takes that oath is my family and my family is long and has reached back to the very birth pains of this Republic. We honor our dead and avenge our brothers. When it's one of our own killing our own, well that requires special handling.

This will be VERY controversial, but when you take up brotherhood and the oath to defend each other, that everyone is your family, and that it goes back to the beginning of the republic, you wonder why this is ok, but crazy terrorist shit is not. Islamists are defending their beliefs while Western culture tries to dictate our values and our ways upon others. If you take your mentality that everyone that swears an oath to each other makes them family, what about God? According to the bible, all men and women are brothers and sisters.

My take on life is we are who we are. You are not better than me, nor better than anyone else, and I would say the same about others to you. They are not better than you. To take a belief of brotherhood to the extreme of defending and killing others based on something the military burned into your mind is asinine. Hope you felt the same way about your brother Nidal Hasan

[jdgregory84]

Ron Paul served in the military and while he might not have taken any lives he brought many into the world. Your statements and accusations are based on passion man. Again, you're pointing your finger at the wrong man.

[jdgregory84]

Man, we're all monsters. It's in all of us. If you didn't kill you might've been killed. The line line between man and monster is thin
.

[Vertnut]

Not the smartest thing RP has said lately. It comes across to me as an "off the cuff" remark, that he initially didn't give much thought too. You ever send a text and as soon as you hit "send" you go "Oh, shit! I shouldn't have sent that!"? What politician has not said something really stupid?
I do think RP misses the whole point. I think Kyle considered a firing range therapy of sorts, and a place for guys to connect and share a common bond.
This Routh character already had run-ins with the cops and was known to be a loose cannon (according to latest news reports). To me, it's pretty cut and dried: he killed two men in cold blood for a nice truck. Needle time.

[DallasSleeper]

I am not going to go back and quote everything individually. Frost I think you have summed things up well.

As someone who also suffers from PTSD (which is how I ended up getting involved so deeply with Kyle's organization) I can tell you it has been shown time and time again, the best therapy is to get the guys back out and doing things that they enjoy. This is why there are so many groups that take vets hunting and shooting.

For me personally I am most relaxed when I am shooting, it is really calming. Almost every vet I know is the same way. I was also involved with a group of vets who all suffer from PTSD that fitco cares had a weekly meeting for. It was veteran run and was nice to be able to talk and listen to other guys and their problems. If you combine the 2, shooting with other vets and to me you have the best form of therapy that there is. Again I can only speak on the personal level but other types of therapy have been ineffective for me, sitting and talking with a shrink or therapist who "thinks they understand" is frustrating. They have no clue. Very few people really know what it is like to suffer from this shit. Last I heard only .45% of the population serves, and of those figure roughly 1 out of 10 are true combat soldiers (everyone else is support) the actual number of us is very very low.

*edit
Also unless you have served you will never understand the Brotherhood that Frost is speaking of. Everyone who has served is close to me.. kind of like distant family, but those who actually fight are like brothers. When you are in a combat zone doing unthinkable things, as much as I want to say you are doing it for your country in all actuality you aren't. You are doing it for the guy on your left and your right. You are doing these horrible things to ensure as many of you make it home as possible, when it all comes down to it we are all that each other has. Until you serve, until you have taken a life to save a buddy, until you have had a buddy die in your arms you wont understand this brotherhood.

OK now I am really done

Lastly do not judge veterans suffering from PTSD, we are not monsters. There are many different symptoms, (nightmares, quick temper, depression, seclusion, and others) When is the last time you heard of a vet with PTSD murdering someone? Does it happen... Sure it does but I would say no more often than any other group of the population.

Sorry for ranting, this is just a very frustrating situation for me. I deeply respected Kyle for all of his work with veterans, which is why I helped out his organization. It was a huge kick to the nuts to hear that another veteran is the one responsible for taking this hero from us.

[mikec]

Clayton Williams?

Yes! Couldn't recall his name, figured someone here would have it. Completely ridiculous remark that cost him dearly...


They're saying now that he did it for Kyle's truck. Anyone have pics of this truck that was worth killing two of our guys over?

[ceyko]

How do you Paulbots explain this one?

Why does anyone have to explain it? It was a jackass comment that I thought was f'ed up? Explanation enough?

Again...do you honestly think Paul hears of a current event and think "Holy shit I can't wait to tweet a smart ass comment about this."?

I want ALL politicians to be more responsible and accountable for their actions, not just the ones I dislike. If Obama did this I'd not excuse him, and I'm not going to excuse RP either.

[dee]

Yes! Couldn't recall his name, figured someone here would have it. Completely ridiculous remark that cost him dearly...


They're saying now that he did it for Kyle's truck. Anyone have pics of this truck that was worth killing two of our guys over?

According to the article in our paper he told his sister & BIL that he "Sold his soul for a new truck"

[stevo]

I don't know what is worse, RP making such a statement or his mindless zealots that continue to goosestep behind him like nothing happened.

Stevo

[Forever_frost]

According to the article in our paper he told his sister & BIL that he "Sold his soul for a new truck"

That is interesting. As I said, his death should be done by military tribunal and firing squad