Death of the 2nd amendment, the thread

[bcoop]

So, commiefornia seems to be the place for you

Oh shut the fuck up. You people are overreacting, as usual. But by all means, carry on. Don't let logic and reality get in the way of your whacked out hypothetical scenarios.

[DON SVO]

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

EA =/= EO

Could allow, not does allow. You're stating that as fact, and there is no supporting evidence that this is fact.

Once again, you're making assumptions. Just because they ask, doesn't mean they report it.

And face the truth. Some people ARE a danger to themselves and others, and NEED to be reported if they do have guns. Some people are batshit nuts, and many of them are on this board.

So, commiefornia seems to be the place for you

I'm pretty sure that #16 is applying to psychologists more than your Primary care doctor when he's giving you a flu shot

[Gtracer]

Oh shut the fuck up. You people are overreacting, as usual. But by all means, carry on. Don't let logic and reality get in the way of your whacked out hypothetical scenarios.

humm, seems like a logical response....

And I havent said shit...lol I also have not been buying shit either so I dont know what to tell you about the second part...

[bcoop]

humm, seems like a logical response....

And I havent said shit...lol I also have not been buying shit either so I dont know what to tell you about the second part...

And your response was logical? Spew ignorance, an it comes right back to you, smart guy. What I said about overreacting, well, that's a fact. Just look at all of the posts on here as evidence.

[Gtracer]

And your response was logical? Spew ignorance, an it comes right back to you, smart guy. What I said about overreacting, well, that's a fact. Just look at all of the posts on here as evidence.

I do think so myself, thank you

And to each his own but I honestly see alot of people who are concerned and frustrated...not over reaction. Maybe a guy here and there but for the most part I see people trying to make sense of what is about to happen.

[Mike]

Here is a petition someone started on one of the Oklahoma gun forums..

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...paign=shorturl

[bcoop]

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.







I'm pretty sure that #16 is applying to psychologists more than your Primary care doctor when he's giving you a flu shot

Maybe I'm missing your point, but you are further proving mine.

[Forever_frost]

Actually, the ACA states that doctors cannot ask you if you have a gun in your house. His EO violates the current law

[motoman]

Response from Rick Perry

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/18060/

Gov. Rick Perry released the following statement regarding President Obama's executive actions:


"The Vice President's committee was appointed in response to the tragedy at Newtown, but very few of his recommendations have anything to do with what happened there.


"Guns require a finger to pull the trigger. The sad young man who did that in Newtown was clearly haunted by demons and no gun law could have saved the children in Sandy Hook Elementary from his terror.


"There is evil prowling in the world - it shows up in our movies, video games and online fascinations, and finds its way into vulnerable hearts and minds. As a free people, let us choose what kind of people we will be. Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help. Above all, let us pray for our children.


"In fact, the piling on by the political left, and their cohorts in the media, to use the massacre of little children to advance a pre-existing political agenda that would not have saved those children, disgusts me, personally. The second amendment to the Constitution is a basic right of free people and cannot be nor will it be abridged by the executive power of this or any other president."

[bcoop]

Actually, the ACA states that doctors cannot ask you if you have a gun in your house. His EO violates the current law

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, he didn't issue an EO. Once again, Executive Action is not the same as an Executive Order. He asked for it to be clarified, and if they can't, they will make the change to the current law allowing it.

[Binky]

Actually, the ACA states that doctors cannot ask you if you have a gun in your house. His EO violates the current law

I've pasted the exact text below. Going to edit it to read easier, but the limitation is not that they can't ask - its that they can't ask about firearms for the purtpose of deciding your billing rate.




‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—øAs added by section 10101(e)(2)¿
‘ ‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness
and health promotion activity implemented under subsection
(a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any
information relating to—
‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed
firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property
of an individual; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
or ammunition by an individual.

(The above section does not prohibit the collection or disclosure of information - it specifically prohibits making it a requirement. In other words - you can ask, but you aren't required to)

‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the
authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection
and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that
Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the
collection of any information relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition;
‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

(This section above is where people get confused - this basically translates that there are no additional powers being given by this Act for these areas beyond what someone already has legal powers to do. It doesn't prohibit or put additional limitations on them - its essentially a "speed governor" for these areas. )

‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of
the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient
Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made
by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used
to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of
a firearm or ammunition.

(This section says the ACT doesn't give authorization for a Firearm Registry Database)

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR
ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not
be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied,
and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in
a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under
any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance
with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an
amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance
upon—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

(Can't use any information about the ownership status of a firearm to increase health care rates - or more specifically can't give a discount to someone because they DON'T have a firearm)

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR
INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any
information under any data collection activity authorized under
the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment
made by that Act relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
or ammunition.

(This is the big one - They can ask, but you have the absolute right to not disclose your firearm ownership status.)

[Broncojohnny]

This was a complete non-event. No legislation will come out of Congress.

[line-em-up]

Now he talks about kids again, how about you send your kids to school with no security before you speak to the people

How sweet. He's pulling at our heartsrtings.

[stevo]

I've pasted the exact text below. Going to edit it to read easier, but the limitation is not that they can't ask - its that they can't ask about firearms for the purtpose of deciding your billing rate.

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR
ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not
be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied,
and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in
a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under
any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance
with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an
amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance
upon—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR
INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any
information under any data collection activity authorized under
the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment
made by that Act relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
or ammunition; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
or ammunition.

It looks like you are correct on (4), but not on (5).

Add to that..

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

Stevo

[Binky]

It looks like you are correct on (4), but not on (5).


Stevo

Check my edits in bold.

Önly #16 applies to my ACA post. HIPAA and ACA are two different pieces of legislation.

#17 is all about mental health professionals who are confused about when they can tell the authorities that someone was a danger to themselves or others. Not about their firearms ownership status.