Cops upset about being treated like citizens

[Forever_frost]

I really hate to give credit to that fucktard Tom Cruise, but I like this comment

"I do what you do, but with one difference"

"Oh yeah, what's that?"

"Everyone I deal with is a trained killer."

[JamisonFRC]

How many building are cleared on a daily basis by patrol that face armed and trained opposition?



Sorry that you had to deal with this BS but I do have to point out that the system DID work in this case. There are repercussions for frivolous litigation; the loser pays for the legal cost and can be barred from filing civil actions in the future without getting permission from the court.

Like exmilitary that have gone off the deep end? Luckily its rare that someone is armed and barricaded.

This guy couldn't rub two nickels together. We are the ones that ultimately pays the bill.

Frost, would you indulge me for a second and explain exactly what kind of active shooter training you received. I've asked a few of my exmilitary coworkers about their active shooter training in the military. Funny, they had a very puzzled look on their face. Maybe you were just more high speed than all of them.

[Forever_frost]

Like exmilitary that have gone off the deep end? Luckily its rare that someone is armed and barricaded.

This guy couldn't rub two nickels together. We are the ones that ultimately pays the bill.

Frost, would you indulge me for a second and explain exactly what kind of active shooter training you received. I've asked a few of my exmilitary coworkers about their active shooter training in the military. Funny, they had a very puzzled look on their face. Maybe you were just more high speed than all of them.

Sure. Every infantryman is trained to engage armed targets who shoot back at you. Every one of us. We use MILES gear which is heavy, bulky laser tag BS and we use simunitions that is basically chalk rounds. We're taught fun stuff like fatal funnels and react to contact. This training is pretty regular as well. It's called MOUNT. Hell, I've even done it in the field and in trenches but I'm not seeing a lot of trench warfare these days.

Would you like further clarification? We're trained against other armed and trained men who are out to defeat teh enemy by shooting them and using diversion, cover and concealment and tear and smoke grenades to further this. When was the last time a cop was trained against other cops, all armed with weapons that can cause injury, as a normal part of training? And we do this for days at a time. Not just "go to the range and shoot."

No, we stay out there and run it again, and again, and again for days until we're good at it. We also spend months and sometimes a year at a time with our weapons always in our hands, or within arm's reach. We qualify with them (at least in 1st cav and 1/506th) at least once a month in addition to 'squad training' with things like paintball guns and airsoft. Air soft is for pussies but you get more trigger time against an enemy.

So, how often are you run through qualifications? How often are you put through a situation where you're engaging an opponent that moves, thinks and is armed? And then run it again and again? Ever left training bruised and bloody? If not, you aren't training. You're shooting at paper targets. If your 'exmilitary' coworkers don't know about this training, they're not infantry. Or probably even a Marine.


If you'd like a really drawn out answer, here's what the Army says about us:

Duties performed by this MOS include:

Assists in the performance of reconnaissance operations. Employs, fires, and recovers anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. Locates and neutralizes mines. Operates, mounts/dismounts, zeros, and engages targets using night vision sight. Operates and maintains communications equipment and operates in a radio net. Operates in a NBC contaminated area. Constructs field expedient firing aids for infantry weapons. Performs as a member of a fire team during a movement to contact, reconnaissance, and security, an attack, defense, situational training exercises and all infantry dismounted battle drills. Processes prisoners of war and captured documents.

Leads an infantry team in combat operations, providing tactical and technical guidance to subordinates and professional support to both superiors and subordinates in the accomplishment of their duties. Leads, supervises, and trains subordinate personnel. Calls for and adjusts indirect fire. Evaluates terrain and selects weapon emplacement. Controls organic fires. Installs and recovers anti-handing devices on anti-tank mines and electrical and non-electrical demolition charges. Supervises construction of hasty fortifications and re ceipt, storage, and issue of ammunition. Records operational information on maps. Receives and implements combat orders, di rects deployment of personnel in offensive, defensive, and retro grade operations. Requests, observes, and adjusts direct supporting fire. Evaluates terrain and supervises the emplacement of sighting and firing all assigned weapons. Uses maps and map overlays, performs intersection and resection, and determines elevation and grid azimuths. Leads a fire team during a movement to contact, reconnaissance and security, an attack, defense, situational training exercises, and all infantry dismounted battle drills.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjobs/a/11b.htm

[Forever_frost]

And all of that didn't make me high speed. That made me the norm. Every, every infantryman is trained in all of that. Every one of us. And most Marines. Even Marine chicks which are insanely crazy.

Now, aside from SWAT, which cops go through that kind of training?

[JamisonFRC]

Sure. Every infantryman is trained to engage armed targets who shoot back at you. Every one of us. We use MILES gear which is heavy, bulky laser tag BS and we use simunitions that is basically chalk rounds. We're taught fun stuff like fatal funnels and react to contact. This training is pretty regular as well. It's called MOUNT. Hell, I've even done it in the field and in trenches but I'm not seeing a lot of trench warfare these days.

Would you like further clarification? We're trained against other armed and trained men who are out to defeat teh enemy by shooting them and using diversion, cover and concealment and tear and smoke grenades to further this. When was the last time a cop was trained against other cops, all armed with weapons that can cause injury, as a normal part of training? And we do this for days at a time. Not just "go to the range and shoot."

No, we stay out there and run it again, and again, and again for days until we're good at it. We also spend months and sometimes a year at a time with our weapons always in our hands, or within arm's reach. We qualify with them (at least in 1st cav and 1/506th) at least once a month in addition to 'squad training' with things like paintball guns and airsoft. Air soft is for pussies but you get more trigger time against an enemy.

So, how often are you run through qualifications? How often are you put through a situation where you're engaging an opponent that moves, thinks and is armed? And then run it again and again? Ever left training bruised and bloody? If not, you aren't training. You're shooting at paper targets. If your 'exmilitary' coworkers don't know about this training, they're not infantry. Or probably even a Marine.

I cannot speak for every department out there, but you really have no clue what we are taught. You throw out those high speed terms like "fatal funnel" "cover" "concealment". Next thing you'll say is that you were told to clear hard corners, shoot on the move, and T or diamond formations.

Amazing stuff. You do realize where most of our training and tactics come from, right? Of course you don't.

Yes we train force on force. Yes we use sim rounds, not laser tag equipment that doesn't work (so I've been told). Do we qualify monthly? No. Do some of us qualify more frequently? Yes.

I have grown tired of your rants. You talk so much shit about cops and post constantly about them. Yet, you thump your chest every chance you get about the military, especially the sky's blue Infantry. Surely, you are aware the large number of prior military that are cops. Like I've said many times, I have the utmost respect for someone voluntarily signing up. My best friend in the world, that I've known for 30+ years, is in Afghanistan right now.

Would it be strange to you that civilian LEO are embedded with Army personnel?

I guess I could bring up the former or active military that I have personally arrested. Like the self proclaimed active duty SF guy that was beating the shit out of.... wait for it.... two women in the middle of the street. Impressive that a 6'03" 240 man can beat down two women that together didn't weigh as much as him. He was Army, whether he was SF or not who knows. Oh and his girlfriend who was also stomping on the two women while they were on the ground was Air Force, attached to Army. Both on leave around New Year's Eve. So I should judge the Air Force and Army by these two fine examples? Hell no.

Or another self proclaimed SF active duty that seems to have a habit of meeting women at the bar, taking them home and beat them after holding a gun to their heads.

You see Frost, there are fucked up people everywhere. Your training is only that, training. It doesn't change the person inside.

I realize you have seen combat. Much respect. Seriously. But, how many times since you got out have you kicked in doors and cleared structures? It's a perishable skill. You know this. It's only worth a damn if you continue and stay proficient.

[Forever_frost]

How are they high speed terms? Those are terms. Terms we use. It's not like I'm throwing out acronyms. Cover and concealment are high speed terms? Are you six?

How often do you train force on force? You can grow tired of my rants and can kiss my ass. You choose to look on a threat I post so either you've a crush on me or love the cock or something I'm not sure.

You do know what's impressive about that right? He had two women at the same time. Special forces, lucky bastards. And he had his girlfriend there as well? Foursome? Fuck, most of us have to pay for that. As far as the one who puts guns to the chick's heads? Some people need a bit of help getting off.

What you forget to take into account sparky is this: Those active duty men? Punishable under civilian and military law. Can do time in both areas as well as have a dishonorable discharge. Cops cover for each other and you more often than not see them on paid leave and then the story goes away, or they transfer to another department to do it again. Or they get worse and you have a cop trying to talk someone else into kidnapping a young lady so he can try 'human flesh' to see how it tastes.

How many times have I cleared structures since I've been out? Counting last weekend? 4. Long story. I'm still pretty damned good at it but now, I don't have to worry about ROE and can shoot through walls. Things are much simplier when you don't have the option of war crimes being levied against you.

Oh, and I never moved in a T formation (who would?). We used wedges or V formations. Much easier to cover ground and you aren't in a neat line for a sniper to take out or IED to kill in one shot.

[Forever_frost]

And I've been pretty silent on cops of late. Been busy but for you Spark Plug, I'm willing to start looking again

[BradM]

And I've been pretty silent on cops of late. Been busy but for you Spark Plug, I'm willing to start looking again

Great, Jamison you just flipped his mercury switch.

[Forever_frost]

Great, Jamison you just flipped his mercury switch.

Eh, cops are so 2012. I'm thinking of singling out idiots who are named after the booze consumed to conceive them

[JamisonFRC]

Jesus you are dense.

But at least you kept it at an adult level with the name calling. And I love that you side stepped every negative I posted.

And if you couldn't see/read the sarcasm about the terms I used, there is no help for you.

I am done. You really are a lunatic.

[BradM]

Eh, cops are so 2012. I'm thinking of singling out idiots who are named after the booze consumed to conceive them

Please don't start hating on booze!

[Forever_frost]

I didn't side step them, I mentioned every one of them. I also find the name calling is appropriate because despite having a badge and authority that can ruin someone's life without evidence, you find 'cover' and 'concealment' as high speed terms.

Me? A lunatic? Surely you jest.

[Forever_frost]

Please don't start hating on booze!

Nope, no booze hate. Just poking fun at people named after them

[Forever_frost]

Hey Jamie, you do know that there's a reason police departments hire infantry and not a lot of cops become infantry right? That whole training thing you think is equal with ours. How often do you do force on force training?

[91CoupeMike]

But Denny himself said it was okay. Why all the fuss?