Texas officials about teachers: Arm them!

[Baron Von Crowder]

I still dont understand the difference between a CHL holder anywhere outside a school needing special training because they are in a school.

[BlackSnake]

I still dont understand the difference between a CHL holder anywhere outside a school needing special training because they are in a school.

I'm not sure that I can give you a answer that will suite you, but I'll try.

CHL's were allowed in almost all places but a few. One of those being a school. You first have to ask yourself why? Why are we banned from carrying in schools? Well, we are not. The way I understand the law is that if you work at a school, and the school board themselves votes us in, then at that time its allowed. But I do think its for workers of the school only.

We put these safety nets in place because some people like myself would like to see a higher qualified CHL holder in a situation that has a 20 to 1 ratio of child/adult. And I and others want our kids to be safe from ass hat killers and friendly fire as much as possable. A teacher has enough on their plates to guide 20 plus kids safely away from said gun fire. Then to add confronting a gunman in where they may end up in a shoot out is IMO putting too much for one serving. Without advanced or at least situational training, I think we are allowing for CHL holders to handle more than what they are trained to handle with just a simple CHL.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I'm not sure that I can give you a answer that will suite you, but I'll try.

CHL's were allowed in almost all places but a few. One of those being a school. You first have to ask yourself why? Why are we banned from carrying in schools? Well, we are not. The way I understand the law is that if you work at a school, and the school board themselves votes us in, then at that time its allowed. But I do think its for workers of the school only.

We put these safety nets in place because some people like myself would like to see a higher qualified CHL holder in a situation that has a 20 to 1 ratio of child/adult. And I and others want our kids to be safe from ass hat killers and friendly fire as much as possable. A teacher has enough on their plates to guide 20 plus kids safely away from said gun fire. Then to add confronting a gunman in where they may end up in a shoot out is IMO putting too much for one serving. Without advanced or at least situational training, I think we are allowing for CHL holders to handle more than what they are trained to handle with just a simple CHL.

Interesting. How do you explain that places like daycares and Chuckechese's that have a higher kid/adult ratio werent included in that law, if that was the case?

[BlackSnake]

Interesting. How do you explain that places like daycares and Chuckechese's that have a higher kid/adult ratio werent included in that law, if that was the case?

The ratio count isnt law. Its mine and others that share the same opinion. And there isnt a 1 and 20 ratio at Chuckecheese. You dont have one adult responsable for 20 kids there. I dont have a answer for daycare. Havent thought that one through.

[Baron Von Crowder]

The ratio count isnt law. Its mine and others that share the same opinion. And there isnt a 1 and 20 ratio at Chuckecheese. You dont have one adult responsable for 20 kids there. I dont have a answer for daycare. Havent thought that one through.

The correlation you are mising is government building. Not allowed to carry in any government owned place or vehicle. Schools are generally ISD, but owned/funded by the state.

The bottom line is that extra training or not, if it isnt a gun free zone, there will be less of a chance of someone mentally ill using that place as a safe place to kill without opposition. The power is in the numbers, not the training. In a perfect world, just the threat of there being CHL holders will make them choose some other place, or simply to just off themself without taking others lives.

[BlackSnake]

The correlation you are mising is government building. Not allowed to carry in any government owned place or vehicle. Schools are generally ISD, but owned/funded by the state.

The bottom line is that extra training or not, if it isnt a gun free zone, there will be less of a chance of someone mentally ill using that place as a safe place to kill without opposition. The power is in the numbers, not the training. In a perfect world, just the threat of there being CHL holders will make them choose some other place, or simply to just off themself without taking others lives.

I understand this, but what about the one time it does happen?

[Baron Von Crowder]

I understand this, but what about the one time it does happen?

considering that there have been a school shooting once every, what, 12 years? Shouldnt be a huge issue.

What about that mall shooting where the shooter decided to kill himself when a CHL holder aimed at him but didnt shoot due to the possibility of others getting hit? It stopped the masacre, simply because the shooter didnt want to risk not killing himself quickly and hurting/not dieing from a shot by someone else.

[BlackSnake]

Have you seen some of the shooting that goes on in a CHL class? lol I can pass it with my eyes closed. We had a woman that passed, after hitting the target next to hers. The shooting portion of the test is way too easy to pass IMO.

Add to that the percent of CHL holders that actually shoot on a regular basis. Many never shoot again until the are up to renew. Just so they can have the license.

[ceyko]

I'm going a little rogue here since I don't want to fully read everything...

1. CHLs in school zones. I feel this should be allowed. Everyone thinks about when school is in session and uses those arguments. That's fine, but I still don't agree. Personally it affects me mostly because a lot of time I'm leaving some rough school campuses after midnight for my job - and do not have that option available to me. These campuses can be nasty after hours too.

2. The teacher carrying guns thing - I'd like to see a percentage of teacher volunteers be trained and be paid a bonus monthly. Sort of like Airborne in the US Army - they get jump pay. These teachers should have required training, briefings and NOT be pointed out or made known if at all possible. These teachers would be REQUIRED to have their weapon on them daily.

Granted there is money in the training and the bonuses - but it sure beat paying 2+ people 35K+ per year to stand around most of the time. Anyone ever been on these campuses that pay police to be there? They are not exactly productive, alert or even aware of their surroundings.

[Baron Von Crowder]

Have you seen some of the shooting that goes on in a CHL class? lol I can pass it with my eyes closed. We had a woman that passed, after hitting the target next to hers. The shooting portion of the test is way too easy to pass IMO.

Add to that the percent of CHL holders that actually shoot on a regular basis. Many never shoot again until the are up to renew. Just so they can have the license.

So you have a problem with the CHL qualifications?

[ceyko]

So you have a problem with the CHL qualifications?

Funny part is some states don't require much of anything and zero training. It could be argued that's the way it was meant to be as well.

[BlackSnake]

considering that there have been a school shooting once every, what, 12 years? Shouldnt be a huge issue.

What about that mall shooting where the shooter decided to kill himself when a CHL holder aimed at him but didnt shoot due to the possibility of others getting hit? It stopped the masacre, simply because the shooter didnt want to risk not killing himself quickly and hurting/not dieing from a shot by someone else.

Again, we can "what if" back and forth for weeks and get no where. And a mall is not a single teacher responsable for 20 plus students.

Preaching numbers that deture is a good argument, and I too believe that is a good argument that has been proved, but it still doesnt account for the one time that it does happen. It may never. But if it does, are we prepared for what the outcome might be? I say we protect our right to carry in schools and maybe other places by going a step futher.

[BlackSnake]

So you have a problem with the CHL qualifications?

No. I do have a problem with some CHL holders to police our schools due to the lack of accuracy and other given reasons stated already.

I think we should have two seperate class CHL's though

[BlackSnake]

Funny part is some states don't require much of anything and zero training. It could be argued that's the way it was meant to be as well.

Correct.

[mikec]

Wayne, if it's so prone to teachers killing innocent people, why does it work so well in Israel? They all carry, and they don't have invasions of their schools.